Snoke vs Sidious canon movie force feats only

Started by quanchi11213 pages

Originally posted by Bentley
I agree facts sh_tstomp trolls. What are the facts you brought though? Which on-screen feats put Snoke over Sidious exactly? I hear you citing an interview instead of providing movie feats of this "force power" you keep bringing up.

Just like when we argue Voldemort vs Dumbledore in movies, we care about what happened on screen and not some secondary irrelevant source. What did Snoke bring beyond choking someone over galactic distance or throwing senate pods as ping pong balls? I'm more than interested in having your overview of this impressive force power.

His force power superiority over Ben and Rey. They had raw strength Luke himself only witnessed in them over Vader and Palpatine. Neither were a direct threat to Snoke with his guard up. We see what happened when Ben challenged Luke and what occurred when Luke decimated Vader. Luke is the lynchpin that ties this all together.

Now be accurate someone was trying to cite the books whereas this is a movie related interview. The movies from Harry Potter are different than the books but I argue based off facts, supplemental info, and the obvious portrayals of the characters. I take everything into consideration.

Originally posted by relentless1
lol so part of your argument is some shit that an actor said in an interview?? this ought to be good
The feats in the film with everyone considered shows Snoke is by far the most powerful force used in the film. Hell, Palpatine almost came in his pants at the prospect of recruiting Luke. No one in direct combat was a match for Snoke. The same can't be said for Luke. The amount of pitiful reaching to attack Snoke when he has no low showings is beyond laughable at this point. The actor is confirming the obvious the fanboys don't want to admit to because of their own personal head canon and bias.

Originally posted by Psychotron
And what happens when a Jedi closes the distance? Even AotC Kenobi can block lightning with a saber.
They don't close the distance because of his force abilities. He was beyond dueling. It's clear in the film. You don't close the distance when he can force throttle you at will or fl bolt as well. He's simply the most powerful force user ever seen and confirmed by Serkis himself. The defenses here are quite Trumpian in nature.

Originally posted by samappo
Sidious could have killed Windu with the force whenever he wanted.
Speculation. It also makes no sense and directly contradicts the scene.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They don't close the distance because of his force abilities. He was beyond dueling. It's clear in the film. You don't close the distance when he can force throttle you at will or fl bolt as well. He's simply the most powerful force user ever seen and confirmed by Serkis himself. The defenses here are quite Trumpian in nature.

Who the hell is talking to you, autist?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Who the hell is talking to you, autist?
I am on a public forum, roid rage. I understand you can't keep your rage bottled up but try not to get so triggered all the time. Snoke is the most powerful force user ever seen thus far. It's ok, go hit the weights and try not to let that fact consume you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His force power superiority over Ben and Rey. They had raw strength Luke himself only witnessed in them over Vader and Palpatine. Neither were a direct threat to Snoke with his guard up.

The level of Ben and Rey at that point in time is speculation, the difference between their power and Snoke's is speculation too (given that at no point we see them fighting directly). Given that after dealing with Snoke they were circled by his personal guard it's logical to assume trying to fight him there and then was risky not just because of Snoke's personal power.

Not saying he isn't stronger than they are, I think that it's heavily implied he could defeat either of them. This doesn't mean he's stronger because of raw force power, he has an obvious advantage in experience and control of the force (see Dooku manhandling Anakin in their first encounter, that doesn't diminsh the fact Anakin had more power in spades).

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see what happened when Ben challenged Luke and what occurred when Luke decimated Vader. Luke is the lynchpin that ties this all together.

An older Luke in an inconclusive battle. A battle between older fighters that know intimately each other is different than a random encounter by people that cross swords less often. Luke trained Ben and they fought when he wasn't mentally ready to have that combat.

I think if anything their battle is more like Obi vs Anakin on the two separate occasions they fought: the familiarity with each other and age gap, as well as the determination of each fighter are very realistic factors for the fight resulting in the way it did (two different outcomes). Basically, too many character related circumstances that make the result be murky when it comes to "power".

To make the matters worse, it's unproven that Luke could've beaten Palpatine by himself at any point in time so comparisons with him are moot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Now be accurate someone was trying to cite the books whereas this is a movie related interview. The movies from Harry Potter are different than the books but I argue based off facts, supplemental info, and the obvious portrayals of the characters. I take everything into consideration.

An interview is an interview and we go by feats. It's not as if the interview said "Snoke beats Palpatine".

Originally posted by Bentley
The level of Ben and Rey at that point in time is speculation, the difference between their power and Snoke's is speculation too (given that at no point we see them fighting directly). Given that after dealing with Snoke they were circled by his personal guard it's logical to assume trying to fight him there and then was risky not just because of Snoke's personal power.
That is incorrect because we see both at different points in the film attempt to fight him. Both are toyed with relative ease. We already saw Rey try to fight him. He warned off his personal guard. Rewatch the film. If you can't remember Rey trying to attack him and him backing off his own personal guard how can I expect to have a debate with an ignorant poster. We also see Snoke glean the information he needed from Rey since Kylo was too weak to do so himself. No one could him take on directly. We saw Kylo try and take a bolt to be easily humbled. Snoke set his machinations in place to manipulate him.


Not saying he isn't stronger than they are, I think that it's heavily implied he could defeat either of them. This doesn't mean he's stronger because of raw force power, he has an obvious advantage in experience and control of the force (see Dooku manhandling Anakin in their first encounter, that doesn't diminsh the fact Anakin had more power in spades).
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We see he's stronger in force power since he overpowered Rey's will something Kylo was unable to directly do himself while she had no training.

Anakin was a better duelist he never overpowered Dooku in the force. Anakin defeating Dooku in a Lightsaber battle has nothing to do with raw force power just that he's a better duelist in that battle than Dooku. He had more potential as in a higher ceiling but the guy who was Dooku's whipping boy Kenobi brought his ceiling down ten feet at the end of rots.

An older Luke in an inconclusive battle. A battle between older fighters that know intimately each other is different than a random encounter by people that cross swords less often. Luke trained Ben and they fought when he wasn't mentally ready to have that combat.

[/B]

Luke was armed and still had his abilities. It isn't my fault he was overwhelmed with shame. He came at Kylo first and we see how Ben responded with more than enough time for Luke to defend himself. He was armed. He does not have to scream out his intentions before reacting to what his eyes are showing him.

We also see Rey and her skills are obviously up to par with Luke when she's pissed. Her skills and powers do not matter whatsoever against Snoke. She's force raped at his will. He toyed with her while mocking her.


I think if anything their battle is more like Obi vs Anakin on the two separate occasions they fought: the familiarity with each other and age gap, as well as the determination of each fighter are very realistic factors for the fight resulting in the way it did (two different outcomes). Basically, too many character related circumstances that make the result be murky when it comes to "power".

To make the matters worse, it's unproven that Luke could've beaten Palpatine by himself at any point in time so comparisons with him are moot.

An interview is an interview and we go by feats. It's not as if the interview said "Snoke beats Palpatine". [/B]

We go by the total picture not just the feats. Anyone who says one part of the equation only matters is a very juvenile mind. I can't force you to grasp what the film tells us. Snoke is by far more powerful than anyone in the film. We see how he overwhelms Rey with relative ease and what he does to Kylo after he mocked him. Snoke is beyond conflict and the most powerful force user seen on film especially when we take feats, statements, and the interviews which all reach the same conclusion.

Don't be a trump and say there's no collusion when it's rather obvious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am on a public forum, roid rage. I understand you can't keep your rage bottled up but try not to get so triggered all the time. Snoke is the most powerful force user ever seen thus far. It's ok, go hit the weights and try not to let that fact consume you.

Same old trolling tactics.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Same old trolling tactics.
Battlezone me then. I notice all of you losers always distance yourselves from a Snoke Palpatine challenge while continuing to troll. Your feelings don't matter and aren't legitimate points.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see he's stronger in force power since he overpowered Rey's will something Kylo was unable to directly do himself while she had no training.

Her skills and powers do not matter whatsoever against Snoke. She's force raped at his will. He toyed with her while mocking her.

Anakin was a better duelist he never overpowered Dooku in the force. Anakin defeating Dooku in a Lightsaber battle has nothing to do with raw force power just that he's a better duelist in that battle than Dooku.

But we know he has more raw force power, this is established. The fact that Dooku could toy with someone with a higher potential with his Force knowledge goes to prove that Snoke doing as much with Rey doesn't automatically place him a notch above her in raw power.

We see eye to eye in this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We go by the total picture not just the feats. Anyone who says one part of the equation only matters is a very juvenile mind. I can't force you to grasp what the film tells us.

I agree that statements and implied comments in the film itself are, of course, valid methods of evaluation. I don't consider interviews to be part of this "total picture" though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke is by far more powerful than anyone in the film. We see how he overwhelms Rey with relative ease and what he does to Kylo after he mocked him. Snoke is beyond conflict and the most powerful force user seen on film especially when we take feats, statements, and the interviews which all reach the same conclusion.

Snoke beating all people in this film doesn't give him a default win against Palpatine. Nothing suggests that Luke, Rey or Kylo at any point in time could push the Emperor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Battlezone me then. I notice all of you losers always distance yourselves from a Snoke Palpatine challenge while continuing to troll. Your feelings don't matter and aren't legitimate points.

I don't do battlezones, I'm not a nerd. You don't have any arguments anyway, it would be a massive waste of my time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His force power superiority over Ben and Rey. They had raw strength Luke himself only witnessed in them over Vader and Palpatine. Neither were a direct threat to Snoke with his guard up. We see what happened when Ben challenged Luke and what occurred when Luke decimated Vader. Luke is the lynchpin that ties this all together.

Now be accurate someone was trying to cite the books whereas this is a movie related interview. The movies from Harry Potter are different than the books but I argue based off facts, supplemental info, and the obvious portrayals of the characters. I take everything into consideration.

But what does raw strength matter without showing the ability to control/command it, especially mid fight? Anakin had the highest midiclorian count of any Jedi higher than even Yoda, that didn't stop Dooku from ragdolling Anakin with lightning and 1 shot ko'ing him.

Sidious could ragdoll Snoke, Rey and Kylo Ren simultaneously, never mind Snoke alone. 2 minutes alone with Palpatine and Snoke would be turned into a run-of-the-mill Inquisitor ready to do Sheev or Vader's bidding.

I hope someone makes combines video of Sheev attacking Agen Kolar and Snoke getting cut in half.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I don't do battlezones, I'm not a nerd. You don't have any arguments anyway, it would be a massive waste of my time.
A guy who posts on a forum to debate fanatsy films for years and who just went on an emotional rant tried to pretend he isn't a nerd. Hey, you backed down like all the other internet badasses when the merits of your argument actually matter.

Originally posted by Bentley
But we know he has more raw force power, this is established. The fact that Dooku could toy with someone with a higher potential with his Force knowledge goes to prove that Snoke doing as much with Rey doesn't automatically place him a notch above her in raw power.

Dooku was not able to toy with Anakin when his power had doubled. He was able to exploit the brashness and reckless nature of Anakin in their first encounter. When he recovered in the movie Dooku had to best him in an actual duel. He wasn't just fl him around at will even with a much weaker and more reckless Anakin.

We see power vs power he overpowered her will something Kylo was unable to do. Snoke always knew he'd have to do so hence bring her to me. He then discerned the intel he wanted. Snoke showed his superiority over her unlike Luke who was in awe.


We see eye to eye in this.

I agree that statements and implied comments in the film itself are, of course, valid methods of evaluation. I don't consider interviews to be part of this "total picture" though.

Snoke beating all people in this film doesn't give him a default win against Palpatine. Nothing suggests that Luke, Rey or Kylo at any point in time could push the Emperor. [/B]

No, we don't.

I do because it all leads to the same conclusion. Serkis isn't giving interviews to mislead the audience and anyone outright dismissing an actor who worked on the film and has insight on his own character is doing so out of personal bias. If a writer on his own story tells what you his scene meant that's what he meant. Just because the reader wasn't bright enough to discern it doesn't mean their own interpretation takes precedence over reality. This isn't Trumpian.

Yes, it does since Luke had a gauge of Palpatine's power. He met all these characters and was in awe of Rey and Ben. I'm not saying any of these other characters could beat the emperor but that the emperor didn't display the the force superiority over any of these characters. Snoke is the most powerful force user we have ever seen and he won't have a single low showing.

That's what is driving the Palpatine fanboys insane. In direct conflict he toyed with his opposition whereas Palpatine lost to Windu, stalemated Yoda in force power, and was killed by a very slow Vader with no usage of the force minus one hand and just a toss. Palpatine screamed like a ***** to his death.

Originally posted by Raptor22
But what does raw strength matter without showing the ability to control/command it, especially mid fight? Anakin had the highest midiclorian count of any Jedi higher than even Yoda, that didn't stop Dooku from ragdolling Anakin with lightning and 1 shot ko'ing him.
That is just capitalizing on an opportune moment. We see Obi Wand dice up Anakin due to striking at the proper moment but this has no bearing on force power vs. force power. But now that I'm thinking of it despite the power superiority of Anakin over Kenobi we see both struggle to push each other back with the force. It isn't that easy to just overpower someone with relative ease unless you are Snoke. He is the pinnacle of force power seen in the mythos up to this point.

Evidence that is isn't so easy even when one guy is more powerful than the other with the force to overpower them.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Sidious could ragdoll Snoke, Rey and Kylo Ren simultaneously, never mind Snoke alone. 2 minutes alone with Palpatine and Snoke would be turned into a run-of-the-mill Inquisitor ready to do Sheev or Vader's bidding.
Nah, Palpatine was killed by a one armed cyborg without the force and a very slow drawn out toss. Palpatine died like a ***** and never had the rebels to such dire straits as Snoke did in this film.

Snoke is too powerful and force rapes him at his will. Palpatine can't even ragdoll Windu. He's pitiful.