Mass Shootings in America Thread · General Discussion Forum

Robtard Senor Member

Originally posted by Firefly218
Story in 3 parts:
1. Obama made mental illness a part of the gun background checks after Sandy Hook. He signed a law that required gun checks for people with mental illnesses that would take full effect in a couple years.
2. In 2017, Trump signed a bill that nullified gun checks for people with mental illness and destroyed the database and reversed Obama's legislation.
3. In 2018, a mentally ill white nationalist teenager with a history of threatening violence passed the background check and legally purchased a dangerous weapon.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

So much #maga right there

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Firefly218
It was Thomas Jefferson who said that every generation should have a revolution. Clearly change is expected, change is a constant of life. The 2nd amendment made sense in its own time, today it needs restrictions and regulations.

Wait are you really trying to use a quote about the necessity of revolution as a basis to restrict firearms? If anything the quote supports the notion that the common man SHOULD have access to military grade weaponry so that a successful revolution would be possible if it became necessary. After all, our current weapons may be leaps and bounds above muskets of that era, but at the time muskets WERE military grade weapons...

Firefly218 Restricted

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait are you really trying to use a quote about the necessity of revolution as a basis to restrict firearms? If anything the quote supports the notion that the common man SHOULD have access to military grade weaponry so that a successful revolution would be possible if it became necessary. After all, our current weapons may be leaps and bounds above muskets of that era, but at the time muskets WERE military grade weapons...

Revolution doesn't need to mean physical violence. The renaissance was a revolution, there was an industrial revolution, duchamp pioneered the revolution against impressionism in art.

Revolution simply means to fight for something that you believe will be better. Every generation of people will live in a slightly different world and have different concerns, so each of their fights will be different.

I just used the quote to demonstrate that the Founding Fathers were aware of the need for change and growth.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Firefly218
Revolution doesn't need to mean physical violence. The renaissance was a revolution, there was an industrial revolution, duchamp pioneered the revolution against impressionism in art.
Revolution simply means to fight for something that you believe will be better. Every generation of people will live in a slightly different world and have different concerns, so each of their fights will be different.
I just used the quote to demonstrate that the Founding Fathers were aware of the need for change and growth.

Right but if you can't physically fight back then those other forms of revolution are ONLY possible if those in power allow it. That's why disarming the populous is one of the first moves of pretty much every fascist dictator ever.

Emperordmb LSDMB

Yeah as Ben Shapiro astutely says "The founding fathers didn't just build a government they rebelled against one."

Robtard Senor Member

You don't need to disarm, I don't care how badass Joe Redneck thinks he is, his semi-auto assault rifle isn't a match for the military.

darthgoober Senior Member

Put it this way, many people consider Trump to be a fascist, right? For the sake of argument let's say that he is the next Hitler as many claim. Do we really want to guarantee that he's the only one with guns as his disposal?

Robtard Senor Member

I don't know of anyone who believes Trump's going to declare himself Forever King like Obama was supposed to do all those many times. So it's a moot point.

The "fascist" comments seem to be directed at some of his shitty behavior like trying to silence the media with threats of lawsuits.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Robtard
You don't need to disarm, I don't care how badass Joe Redneck thinks he is, his semi-auto assault rifle isn't a match for the military.

It's enough to make a guerrilla war extremely costly though and that's important. You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make the fight not worth the cost. And as people are always pointing out, those "military grade" semi automatic weapons can be converted to fully auto fairly easily.

jaden101 Restricted

Originally posted by darthgoober
Put it this way, many people consider Trump to be a fascist, right? For the sake of argument let's say that he is the next Hitler as many claim. Do we really want to guarantee that he's the only one with guns as his disposal?

Do you think the military would go along with it if he ordered the mass killing of US citizens?

Or is it more likely that it would be the military that actually overthrew a fascist government?

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't know of anyone who believes Trump's going to declare himself Forever King like Obama was supposed to do all those many times. So it's a moot point.
The "fascist" comments seem to be directed at some of his shitty behavior like trying to silence the media with threats of lawsuits.

Do you really want him to have that option though? Cause if we were to take all the guns away tomorrow then he could very well do it before his term is up.

Robtard Senor Member

If you want to live the Red Dawn hero's fantasy, go ahead. I'll stick to over here, in reality.

Besides, if you're advocating that all weapons need to be allowed to everyone equally for fear of tyranny, you're just putting more power into the wealthiest people's hands. As someone like Mark Zuckerberg can afford a formation of A1M1 tanks, Drones and mercs for his private army. You and I can't.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by jaden101
Do you think the military would go along with it if he ordered the mass killing of US citizens?
Or is it more likely that it would be the military that actually overthrew a fascist government?

Really... is that why every wannabe fascist dictator ever was stopped from seizing power by their own military?

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Robtard
If you want to live the Red Dawn hero's fantasy, go ahead. I'll stick to over here, in reality.
Besides, if you're advocating that all weapons need to be allowed to everyone equally for fear of tyranny, you're just putting more power into the wealthiest people's hands. As someone like Mark Zuckerberg can afford a formation of A1M1 tanks, Drones and mercs for his private army. You and I can't.

You're right, they can get better stuff. But that doesn't mean we should give up our ability to mount any kind of defense at all.

Firefly218 Restricted

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's enough to make a guerrilla war extremely costly though and that's important. You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make the fight not worth the cost. And as people are always pointing out, those "military grade" semi automatic weapons can be converted to fully auto fairly easily.

This is just paranoia. We’re no longer under the tyranny of King George, we have a full-functioning multi-leveled representative democracy with checks and balances. The government is you and me, we don’t need to take up arms we can just vote Trump out of office.

Kids are being slaughtered, so people need to put aside their baseless paranoia and vote for government officials who support gun control

jaden101 Restricted

Originally posted by darthgoober
Really... is that why every wannabe fascist dictator ever was stopped from seizing power by their own military?

The whole "freedom" shtick is more instilled in the American military consciousness than Trump shtick.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Firefly218
This is just paranoia. We’re no longer under the tyranny of King George, we have a full-functioning multi-leveled representative democracy with checks and balances. The government is you and me, we don’t need to take up arms we can just vote Trump out of office.
Kids are being slaughtered, so people need to put aside their baseless paranoia and vote for government officials who support gun control

Paranoia? We have a broken system, that's what we have. We have things like the patriot act allowing corrupt and greedy people to spy on everyone and loopholes that allow for people to be arrested without probable cause, tortured while in custody, and held for the rest of their natural born lives without anything about it ever being made known to the general public... When people are afraid their civil liberties are the first thing they'll off up in order to feel safe again. And that's the very reason that we CAN'T just offer them up. Once they're gone, the government isn't really all that keen on giving them back.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by jaden101
The whole "freedom" shtick is more instilled in the American military consciousness than Trump shtick.

The military does heinous shit all the time. Most people who are extensively trained to follow orders end up following orders even if they disagree.

jaden101 Restricted

Originally posted by darthgoober
The military does heinous shit all the time. Most people who are extensively trained to follow orders end up following orders even if they disagree.

Yeah. To brown people in places they can't pronounce or point to on a map. That's a bit different than shooting old Jim next door or dropping ordnance on your aunt and uncles house cos they vote democrat.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by jaden101
Yeah. To brown people in places they can't pronounce or point to on a map. That's a bit different than shooting old Jim next door or dropping ordnance on your aunt and uncles house cos they vote democrat.

Yeah but what happens when the "choice" given is "shoot Jim from next door right now or I'll have you arrested and make sure ordinance gets dropped on your aunt an uncles house by someone who follows orders".