Originally posted by h1a8
Considering the movie physics about protecting human stars from superhuman forces then it's not really a good feat.Otherwise Tony would have a broken face and be koed. Neither happened.
And Roschach would have superhuman durability, enough where he too could take a metal arm with no damage.
Well using your logic, the explanation would therefore be that Tony has enhanced durability. Same reason you used for Rosch or NightOwl.
To apply different standards would prove you a troll.
I also see how unwilling you are to let go of Tony and actually discuss TChalla and Bucky.
Originally posted by h1a8
You failed miserable. All you did was construct a very bad strawman.My point is that Tony established a particular movie physic. That means any other scene can possibly be subject to that particular physic.
Nope, I applied your standards succesfully.
The humans is Watchmen established a particular movie physic. that means any other scene can possibly be subject to that particular physic.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Well using your logic, the explanation would therefore be that Tony has enhanced durability. Same reason you used for Rosch or NightOwl.To apply different standards would prove you a troll.
This. If Rorschach taking things like the kick from Ozy without injury means he has enhanced durability, then Tony taking hits from Bucky without dying means the same for him. Alternatively, if it's "movie physics" protecting Tony, then the same goes for the Watchmen, and their own feats are also subject to "movie physics" scrutiny.
But, of course, H1 wants to apply one standard to one set of characters, and a different standard to another set, because he favours the one side over the other. And instead of just admitting his blatant double standards, he would rather accuse people of strawmanning when all they are doing is applying the standards he uses with MCU characters to the Watchmen characters.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This. If Rorschach taking things like the kick from Ozy without injury means he has enhanced durability, then Tony taking hits from Bucky without dying means the same for him. Alternatively, if it's "movie physics" protecting Tony, then the same goes for the Watchmen, and their own feats are also subject to "movie physics" scrutiny.But, of course, H1 wants to apply one standard to one set of characters, and a different standard to another set, because he favours the one side over the other. And instead of just admitting his blatant double standards, he would rather accuse people of strawmanning when all they are doing is applying the standards he uses with MCU characters to the Watchmen characters.
Exactly, he never stopped to consider that his "the movie's physics" argument could just as easily be used to show that Ozy has no enhanced stats at all.
What's hilarious is he tried to use the fact that he added the word "the" as a justification, even though it is just his personal assertion about the film in question. He has yet to explain why so-called "movie physics" as an explanation gets applied in that manner to one side but not the other. Why is it that when Rorschach and Nite Owl take repeated hits from Ozy without going doing it is a testament to their durability, but Tony simply surviving two hits from Winter Soldier means the movie's physics protected the character.
It's not like Tony is some random pleb. By CA:CW, he has been Iron Man for nearly a decade, and has plenty of combat experience. Plus, we see in Iron Man 2 that not only does he sometimes train in H2H, he even has a gym room with weight-lifting gear in his house (or had, until his house got blown up in IM3). He might not be on par with the MCU H2H elites, but it's established in the films that he is no noob either. So, I don't see why he gets treated differently, and is suddenly a yardstick for everyone in the film, while Watchmen characters get different standards applied to them.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Well using your logic, the explanation would therefore be that Tony has enhanced durability. Same reason you used for Rosch or NightOwl.To apply different standards would prove you a troll.
I also see how unwilling you are to let go of Tony and actually discuss TChalla and Bucky.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This. If Rorschach taking things like the kick from Ozy without injury means he has enhanced durability, then Tony taking hits from Bucky without dying means the same for him. Alternatively, if it's "movie physics" protecting Tony, then the same goes for the Watchmen, and their own feats are also subject to "movie physics" scrutiny.But, of course, H1 wants to apply one standard to one set of characters, and a different standard to another set, because he favours the one side over the other. And instead of just admitting his blatant double standards, he would rather accuse people of strawmanning when all they are doing is applying the standards he uses with MCU characters to the Watchmen characters.
But Tony doesn't have enhanced durability. Therefore the physic exist. And neither does Rorschach either (as it is contradicted in another scene).
Originally posted by Silent Master
Nope, I applied your standards succesfully.The humans is Watchmen established a particular movie physic. that means any other scene can possibly be subject to that particular physic.
What particular physic did they establish.? That it's possible for a human to move at the speed of a bullet and perceive it too? I agree.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly, he never stopped to consider that his "the movie's physics" argument could just as easily be used to show that Ozy has no enhanced stats at all.
Originally posted by h1a8
The movie physic shows that Ozy does. The movie physic shows that human stars are protected (same as comic human level heroes).
You gave a choice, that it either proved that A. the movie protected the people hit or B. the person hitting them doesn't have super-strength. I pick B for Ozy.
I'm just following your rules.
Originally posted by h1a8
But Tony doesn't have enhanced durability. Therefore the physic exist. And neither does Rorschach either (as it is contradicted in another scene).
False. All Tony surviving the hits does is establish that he, as an individual character, can survive those specific hits. It does not mean he, nor any other non-superhuman for that matter, could tank a hit from Winter Soldier's much stronger metal arm in the same manner T'Challa did (considering a weaker limb did far worse). Again, as you yourself have brought up before in other threads, characters don't share feats. We are directly shown Tony being floored by Bucky's human arm. We are directly shown that Black Panther can take multiple comparable hits, as well as a metal arm strike, and be perfectly fine. Even if you want to continue with your bullshit, the movie makes it clear that T'Challa is significantly more durable than even a "protected" (according to you) Tony. No amount of mental gymnastics on your part changes this. And I am done addressing this. If you want to continue your nonsense with other people, feel free to, but you're just making an even bigger ass out of yourself in the eyes of everyone else here.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
False. All Tony surviving the hits does is establish that he, as an individual character, can survive those specific hits. It does not mean he, nor any other non-superhuman for that matter, could tank a hit from Winter Soldier's much stronger metal arm in the same manner T'Challa did (considering a weaker limb did far worse). Again, as you yourself have brought up before in other threads, characters don't share feats. We are directly shown Tony being floored by Bucky's human arm. We are directly shown that Black Panther can take multiple comparable hits, as well as a metal arm strike, and be perfectly fine. Even if you want to continue with your bullshit, the movie makes it clear that T'Challa is significantly more durable than even a "protected" (according to you) Tony. No amount of mental gymnastics on your part changes this. And I am done addressing this. If you want to continue your nonsense with other people, feel free to, but you're just making an even bigger ass out of yourself in the eyes of everyone else here.
But an individual can't survive (without a broken face or being koed) a hit like that from a superhuman. So either the movie ignored the fact that WS is superhuman or he isn't.
Originally posted by FrothByte
The "if" is already valid, therefore using your logic Tony is super durable.
The if is not valid if WS is superhuman. Since it's a fact that Tony is a normal human, per the story. Thus is WS is superhuman then the movie established the physic that protects human stars.
Originally posted by h1a8
The if is not valid if WS is superhuman. Since it's a fact that Tony is a normal human, per the story. Thus is WS is superhuman then the movie established the physic that protects human stars.
So you admit to applying a double standard then, because you never used that reasoning when discussing Rosch's durability or Ozy's strength.
Originally posted by h1a8
But an individual can't survive (without a broken face or being koed) a hit like that from a superhuman. So either the movie ignored the fact that WS is superhuman or he isn't.
Of course they can. A short elbow jab like that without any weight behind it is not a knockout blow .
Originally posted by h1a8
But an individual can't survive (without a broken face or being koed) a hit like that from a superhuman. So either the movie ignored the fact that WS is superhuman or he isn't.
This post is pure trolling, because it continues to spew your personal opinion (which you continue to only apply to one side) while ignoring the actual more relevant parts of my argument i.e. even with your bullshit, T'Challa still performed significantly better in the durability department than anyone, including Tony (your benchmark), did in that scene.
Also, still trying to slip your Winter Soldier isn't superhuman narrative into things, even after we've had a ton of onscreen showings and information that shows that he is. Anyway, that response shows you would rather keep trolling than have a proper discussion.