Originally posted by Nephthys
He's stopped time in the middle of combat, lol. Its not just perspective.
Yes, it is. Valkorion also made the Outlander see Darth Jadus in another one of those little stopped time moments. I guess Valkorion can now use the midi-clorians to create life in the exact form he wants it to as well.
OK, being serious here for a moment:
It's difficult to do a side-by-side environmental feats comparison between Yoda and Vitiate given that the former obviously isn't inclined to start going around and eating planets or something. Given that, it's better to go mainly via powerscaling and accolades (and, by proxy, powerscaled feats).
Since it's pretty established that by before Plagueis's death, Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, in order to be above Yoda, Valkorion must be above Vitiate pre-Valkorion by a greater degree than RotS Sidious is above mid-TPM Sidious at a minimum. More realistically, Plagueis is already implied to have surpassed all of the ancient sith even before he uses midichlorian manipulation to amp himself, so there's likely an even greater buffer for Valkorion to overcome.
If you want to know how unlikely this is, take a look at what happens with Palpatine following Plagueis's death. There is a realignment in power so massive the celestial bodies themselves are described in pretty explicit detail (I dare say too explicit to be mere hyperbole) to have been rearranged. Given that Plagueis and Sidious needed intensive meditation to achieve their galactic-scale Force realiagnment while Sidious then does what is implied to be a comparable or even greater rebalancing by himself, the power differential must have been enormous. And then there's no reason to think he doesn't grow more powerful from there to RotS, during which Yoda is clearly comparable to him in power.
Valkorion dies.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
OK, being serious here for a moment:It's difficult to do a side-by-side environmental feats comparison between Yoda and Vitiate given that the former obviously isn't inclined to start going around and eating planets or something. Given that, it's better to go mainly via powerscaling and accolades (and, by proxy, powerscaled feats).
It isn't better, it just allows you to ignore any kind of actual argument about the two and declare Yoda the winner. You know you can't actually argue that Yoda would win with his actual abilities so you're just attempting to shut the discussion down through fiat.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
If that video is of any indication, I don't think this "perception" distinction matters. If an ability like that is unchained by PIS/CIS, then there's nothing stopping Valk from enhancing his own perceptions to ridiculous degrees and effectively having built-in prep mid-battle, hell even mid-attack. He could sit back and spend hours deliberating each move Sherlocke Holme's style and decide upon the most efficient method of counterattack meanwhile always leaving his opponent in the dust. If I had an ability like that, I would destroy world champion boxers and MMA fighters with the utmost ease. 😂
Completely unquantifiable as to how often he can do it in his own body.
Given it seems he can barely hold it in the Outlander’s mind, I doubt he can do it particularly often.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Please don't do that. Everything else was on point, but this was obviously a hyperbolic description.
Well the conservative interpretation is that it was hyperbole but clearly describes an amp/realignment so massive that you can describe it as the physical reconfiguration of the galaxy without being ridiculous, and the liberal one is that the celestial orbits were literally changing. Whichever you take, we have to be consistent.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well the conservative interpretation is that it was hyperbole but clearly describes an amp/realignment so massive that you can describe it as the physical reconfiguration of the galaxy without being ridiculous, and the liberal one is that the celestial orbits were literally changing. Whichever you take, we have to be consistent.
Originally posted by SelenialThe Outlander is, of course, an unwilling victim, so I imagine there'd definitely be some difficulties in attempting to exert some method of control over a resistant force wielder. Fortunately, I'm proposing that Valky-boy, unchained by rampant CIS, merely use this force ability on himself and in a strategic fashion.
Completely unquantifiable as to how often he can do it in his own body.Given it seems he can barely hold it in the Outlander’s mind, I doubt he can do it particularly often.
Originally posted by The EllimistAd hominem aside, he has a point.
"It isn't better, here's an ad hominem" isn't a quality argument, even by your standards. Try again.
Since it's pretty established that by before Plagueis's death, Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord of all timeAccolades should sparingly be used in a versus forum context as you end up running into a lot of trouble with author's intent, which is never to establish that X character would be omnipotent in any random hypothetical scenario involving a fight with Y character." X character is great, but if his feats indicate some shortcomings in one area, we shouldn't blindly disregard said shortcomings when analyzing how he'd fare against another combatant and harp on about scaling and whatever.
If you want to know how unlikely this is, take a look at what happens with Palpatine following Plagueis's death. There is a realignment in power so massive the celestial bodies themselves are described in pretty explicit detail (I dare say too explicit to be mere hyperbole) to have been rearranged. Given that Plagueis and Sidious needed intensive meditation to achieve their galactic-scale Force realiagnment while Sidious then does what is implied to be a comparable or even greater rebalancing by himself, the power differential must have been enormous. And then there's no reason to think he doesn't grow more powerful from there to RotS, during which Yoda is clearly comparable to him in power.This is a misleading argument; it's impressive, but it tells us nothing about sheer combat ability (which, like everyone else aside from MAYBE the ones, is far far below galaxy tier ).
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Ad hominem aside, he has a point. Accolades should sparingly be used in a versus forum context as you end up running into a lot of trouble with author's intent, which is never to establish that X character would be omnipotent in any random hypothetical scenario involving a fight with Y character." X character is great, but if his feats indicate some shortcomings in one area, we shouldn't blindly disregard said shortcomings when analyzing how he'd fare against another combatant and harp on about scaling and whatever.
Actually, authorial intent is one of the best arguments for prioritizing accolades over feats, because it's far simpler to construct a consistent general power hierarchy than to carefully calibrate the magnitude and implications of every application of the Force to the user's intended power relative to other Force users. "Sidious is more powerful than Dooku" is easy to get consistent in stories; "oh we'll have Dooku lift this rock but wait didn't Sidious struggle with lifting that thing, which one is heavier?" requires a lot more calibration that we know authors don't typically do.
This is a misleading argument; it's impressive, but it tells us nothing about sheer combat ability (which, like everyone else aside from MAYBE the ones, is far far below galaxy tier ).
No, but general Force power is a very good proxy for combative ability for obvious reasons. We see that Force users' ability to use the Force in one area is correlated with their ability to use it in another; while it's not exactly the same, there's a reason why you don't see Vestara Khai blowing up fleets with Force Storms.