Originally posted by h1a8
of course he can travel at ftl speeds. But you are falsely assuming that he can reach that speed instantly. He has to spend time acceleratiing to that speed.And heralds don’t share feats.
Read his bio. Read all of their bios. All of the Heralds of Galactus were made that way for one purpose. To serve Galactus' needs. They can all travel at FTL speeds, and fight the pull of a black hole.
The Runner was stated as being able to move from one spot to the end of the universe in a moment. That was your question. it was answered. You didn't like it.
The same way that the Fallen One was cubed up, is the same way that he would cube up the DC side the moment that the match began. Thanos operates like that. It's in his character to do this. I've also explained just how strong his shields are in comparison to Captain America's shield, and can prove it.
Starting distance.
Blitz attempt
Force Cubed.
Dealt with one on one.
Extremely possible, and highly likely.
Thanos is also no longer land locked.
Originally posted by StoicAd nauseum and double standards?
that scan is meaningless. i KNOW he's hit heralds. so has...pretty well anyone who's ever fought one. hulk for example. and just how fast was thanos being attacked? how much time did thanos have to react and attack? beyond that, batman has hit reverse flash--multiple times. do we assume bats, or daredevil, or any other street guy who's tagged uber fast guys can now do so at will? hulk hit a blitzing sentry. hulk=sentry in speed?
this has never been about thanos being able to hit these guys--not for me. i already acknowledged that i think he could. it's about the double standard that is being applied, the same double standard "marvel fans" accuse "dc fans" of propagating. what is proof for one character, should then be proof for another. eg, if batman can do what thanos has done (and MORE since going h2h with REVERSE FLASH>>>than that thanos scanned you showed), batman should be considered to be at least as fast as thanos. and since you claim thanos has feats to allow him to keep up with these guys AT SPEED, well, bats, or hulk should be able to do the same thing, right....?
ultimately, arguing this point the way you are, applying the logic you are, you can't win, because it leads to absurd conclusions or it forces you to apply exceptions to your reasoning--and that is also a terrible way to go. if your logic route forces exception after exception (as this one would) then the route wasn't very good to begin with. there is NO proof thanos can hang with these guys--no proof that MANY other characters far below thanos don't share. which should mean that we draw the same conclusions about all those others that we do about thanos. which is silly an absurd. unless you really think batman IS fast enough to fight reverse flash in h2h combat....?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
It's only speaks of power. It's vague. It doesn't specify that it was the power of all the dead gods.
The Wytches said it in the scan that didn't appear.
https://s10.postimg.org/q8l74fpdl/ God_Quarry_Repository_Of_The_Power_Of_All_Old_Gods
_Thanos-_2016-_-009-014.jpg
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The Wytches said it in the scan that didn't appear.https://s10.postimg.org/q8l74fpdl/ God_Quarry_Repository_Of_The_Power_Of_All_Old_Gods
_Thanos-_2016-_-009-014.jpg
That link still isn't working
Originally posted by leonidas
that scan is meaningless. i KNOW he's hit heralds. so has...pretty well anyone who's ever fought one. hulk for example. and just how fast was thanos being attacked? how much time did thanos have to react and attack? beyond that, batman has hit reverse flash--multiple times. do we assume bats, or daredevil, or any other street guy who's tagged uber fast guys can now do so at will? hulk hit a blitzing sentry. hulk=sentry in speed?this has never been about thanos being able to hit these guys--not for me. i already acknowledged that i think he could. it's about the double standard that is being applied, the same double standard "marvel fans" accuse "dc fans" of propagating. [b]what is proof for one character, should then be proof for another.
eg, if batman can do what thanos has done (and MORE since going h2h with REVERSE FLASH>>>than that thanos scanned you showed), batman should be considered to be at least as fast as thanos. and since you claim thanos has feats to allow him to keep up with these guys AT SPEED, well, bats, or hulk should be able to do the same thing, right....?ultimately, arguing this point the way you are, applying the logic you are, you can't win, because it leads to absurd conclusions or it forces you to apply exceptions to your reasoning--and that is also a terrible way to go. if your logic route forces exception after exception (as this one would) then the route wasn't very good to begin with. there is NO proof thanos can hang with these guys--no proof that MANY other characters far below thanos don't share. which should mean that we draw the same conclusions about all those others that we do about thanos. which is silly an absurd. unless you really think batman IS fast enough to fight reverse flash in h2h combat....? [/B]
No. No no no no no no no.... NO.
Thanos has shields, Thanos can fly. Thanos has TP. Thanos has magic. there is a clear difference in him and Batman at this point. I don't know why you're even arguing at this point? Thanos has the means to cube them all up from the very start of the match. This is something that DS refused to acknowledge, or he simply refused to read what I was saying about it.
Thanos can now fly. How do they have a movement advantage on him? Does Batman fly? Does Batman have cosmic powers? Does Batman have force cube tech on the level of Thanos? Does Batman have magic? Does Batman have the durability to take hits from Odin and above and get back up? No right?
You are defending a stance that you made on the subject of speed several days ago. The one that you presented opinion as fact. I didn't fully agree with you then, and I don't fully agree with you now. Marvel characters can certainly hit DC characters. It may be difficult but not impossible.
I do recognize, and realize that if a character is moving at the speed of light, a character that can only move a mach speeds should in actuality be a statue.
Thanos can move at speeds capable of keeping up with a Phoenix Avatar. We saw this in a comic. We saw him cube up a being that is arguably as fast as the ones on the DC side when he cubed up the Fallen One at a time that he did not show flight abilities. If you don't want to accept the feat say so. We can agree to disagree. But don't for a minute present a counter argument in an attempt to discredit my logic when I've clearly presented several solid citations.
Originally posted by Stoic
I do recognize, and realize that if a character is moving at the speed of light, a character that can only move a mach speeds should in actuality be a statue.Thanos can move at speeds capable of keeping up with a Phoenix Avatar. We saw this in a comic. We saw him cube up a being that is arguably as fast as the ones on the DC side when he cubed up the Fallen One at a time that he did not show flight abilities. If you don't want to accept the feat say so. We can agree to disagree. But don't for a minute present a counter argument in an attempt to discredit my logic when I've clearly presented several solid citations.
i\m not actually defending anything, and you're still on thanos when this isn't about thanos it's about the way you're defending him. the citations aren't solid. at all. or if they are, the idea that batman can fight reverse flash, wonder woman and karate kid are also solid, right? but forget batman. hulk has smashed ss and and a blitzing sentry (which again is at least as impressive as the fallen one scan imo.) so hulk isn't a statue because he's hit heralds? that simply doesn't hold up imo. and thor. thor has MUCH better quantifiable speed feats than thanos, but mongoose, spider man wolverine and quicksilver have made him look like a slug, but....he's fought heralds and traveled at multiples of light speed, so he wouldn't be a statue either? your defense is full of holes and leads to ridiculous conclusions. /shrug
Originally posted by StoicWhy do you even bother? You have presented FACTS that are very easy to see. These are superman fans and superman is on that team against Thanos. Comparing batman to Thanos should tell you to let them be.
No. No no no no no no no.... NO.Thanos has shields, Thanos can fly. Thanos has TP. Thanos has magic. there is a clear difference in him and Batman at this point. I don't know why you're even arguing at this point? Thanos has the means to cube them all up from the very start of the match. This is something that DS refused to acknowledge, or he simply refused to read what I was saying about it.
Thanos can now fly. How do they have a movement advantage on him? Does Batman fly? Does Batman have cosmic powers? Does Batman have force cube tech on the level of Thanos? Does Batman have magic? Does Batman have the durability to take hits from Odin and above and get back up? No right?
You are defending a stance that you made on the subject of speed several days ago. The one that you presented opinion as fact. I didn't fully agree with you then, and I don't fully agree with you now. Marvel characters can certainly hit DC characters. It may be difficult but not impossible.
I do recognize, and realize that if a character is moving at the speed of light, a character that can only move a mach speeds should in actuality be a statue.
Thanos can move at speeds capable of keeping up with a Phoenix Avatar. We saw this in a comic. We saw him cube up a being that is arguably as fast as the ones on the DC side when he cubed up the Fallen One at a time that he did not show flight abilities. If you don't want to accept the feat say so. We can agree to disagree. But don't for a minute present a counter argument in an attempt to discredit my logic when I've clearly presented several solid citations.
Originally posted by leonidas
i\m not actually defending anything, and you're still on thanos when this isn't about thanos it's about the way you're defending him. the citations aren't solid. at all. or if they are, the idea that batman can fight reverse flash, wonder woman and karate kid are also solid, right? but forget batman. hulk has smashed ss and and a blitzing sentry (which again is at least as impressive as the fallen one scan imo.) so hulk isn't a statue because he's hit heralds? that simply doesn't hold up imo. and thor. thor has MUCH better quantifiable speed feats than thanos, but mongoose, spider man wolverine and quicksilver have made him look like a slug, but....he's fought heralds and traveled at multiples of light speed, so he wouldn't be a statue either? your defense is full of holes and leads to ridiculous conclusions. /shrug
None of those guys have Thanos' abilities to nail this ridiculous subject shut. You want to talk about something that may never be allowed to happen. H2H may never become a situation here. Think hard about this stance that you have. It makes no sense when Thanos has the power to shut a physical confrontation down. Why do you keep arguing? Oh because you want to make a point about Batman tagging reverse Flash, in order to call PIS? Thanos has the power to make any reader believe that defeating a speedster, or speedsters of this level were possible without a PIS tag being placed on it.
Your entire point is irrelevant. None of this H2H has to happen. Ignore the evidence if you want to, just don't bring it up to me because you refuse to see the Fallen One's blitz halted, being disingenuous about it just makes you look bad. What do I mean? Well he stopped the Fallen One, a being capable of moving at FTL speeds from a starting position just like Team DC can, but you don't see the correlation between the two? Leo don't play with me bro.
How do you say that one would work while the other wouldn't? Double standard time?
I still don't understand how you don't see my point, Stoic.
Reacting and tagging a speedster, does not automatically give you speedster feats.
Look at below. Look at the time between 0:07 and 0:05. Batman reacts to a speeding Zoom, and clocks him cleanly. Of course, Zoom beats the shit outta him, lol, but with that punch, that makes Batman....
Ignore all powers, for a second. Stop and think.
Batman clocks Zoom who is trying to blitz him. Zoom, who does this to Barry Allen:
https://imgur.com/a/UjEpv
And, according to WALLY, could rip his heart out (also from a standing position):
http://i.imgur.com/GjRyQMW.jpg
Blitzes Jay:
https://i.imgur.com/06PhLPW.jpg
Zoom BLITZES FLASHES, lol. Yet, when rushing at Batman, Bats reacts, and tags him. Stops him cold.
Replace Zoom with Fallen One, and Batman with Thanos. THAT'S your argument.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I still don't understand how you don't see my point, Stoic.Reacting and tagging a speedster, does not automatically give you speedster feats.
Look at below. Look at the time between 0:07 and 0:05. Batman reacts to a speeding Zoom, and clocks him cleanly. Of course, Zoom beats the shit outta him, lol, but with that punch, that makes Batman....
Ignore all powers, for a second. Stop and think.
Batman clocks Zoom who is trying to blitz him. Zoom, who does this to Barry Allen:
https://imgur.com/a/UjEpvAnd, according to WALLY, could rip his heart out (also from a standing position):
http://i.imgur.com/GjRyQMW.jpgBlitzes Jay:
https://i.imgur.com/06PhLPW.jpgZoom BLITZES FLASHES, lol. Yet, when rushing at Batman, Bats reacts, and tags him. Stops him cold.
Replace Zoom with Fallen One, and Batman with Thanos. THAT'S your argument.
Okay Saint. That moment I admit is PIS. It would never happen in a forum setting unless Zoom was fighting Batman at his own speed. At drastically reduced speeds. can you apply this to aim dodging? Sometimes yes, but not all of the time. Especially when Batman is one of comics best escape artists. In other words if Superman shot a HV before Batman dodged, Batman should have been hit. That was clearly a PIS moment. However, if he began to dodge before the shot, it would be a legitimate near death escape.
Thanos is different. Can you see this? He has the tools to handle speedsters. Do you see this? He has TP which allows for him to see when them about to move before they actually did, and the tech to stop them before they moved. This never has to become a H2H struggle. This has always been my point. Yes I saw your point, this is one of those times that speed does not win out against all. This is why taking a hard stance on anything from a comic book is the wrong stance to take.
Originally posted by Stoic
Okay Saint. That moment I admit is PIS. It would never happen in a forum setting unless Zoom was fighting Batman at his own speed. At drastically reduced speeds. can you apply this to aim dodging? Sometimes yes, but not all of the time. Especially when Batman is one of comics best escape artists. In other words if Superman shot a HV before Batman dodged, Batman should have been hit. That was clearly a PIS moment. However, if he began to dodge before the shot, it would be a legitimate near death escape.Thanos is different. Can you see this? He has the tools to handle speedsters. Do you see this? He has TP which allows for him to see when them about to move before they actually did, and the tech to stop them before they moved. This never has to become a H2H struggle. This has always been my point. Yes I saw your point, this is one of those times that speed does not win out against all. This is why taking a hard stance on anything from a comic book is the wrong stance to take.
But that's the thing - OK, I too admit, Batman's showings are PIS (I'm NOT saying they're valid lol in a forum - we are in agreement).
Thanos has the tools to handle speedsters and make them his b!tches - absolutely. I am in agreement with this as well.
The thing is, would Thanos be able to use these tools? Darkseid too has tools to handle speedsters - he has TP, and he has the OB, plus Apokoliptian tech.
The way I see it, is this. Let's say, you and I are standing over 500m (the starting distance). You have a gun, trained on me. Ready to fire. Let's assume your gun has a laser sight, so I know exactly where you're going to shoot (but the laser doesn't turn on until the match bell rings). And let's assume you have bullet time reactions, so can fire the gun at speed. I have a belt, which has:
[list=1]
[*]A piece of adamantium 1 inch thick, and incredibly light (it's magical adamantium)
[*]Harry Potter's wand (assume I know dope-ass magic, and can freeze you, enact shields, whatever magical stuff I wanted)
[*]A magical Uzi, which never misses it's target
[/list]
The bell rings. Speed doesn't matter? I could block your bullet with the adamantium, use the wand to fire off a spell, jump out of the way, or draw my own gun and shoot you.
But you have speed. I am slower than you, and DEFINITELY slower than the bullet. I can't do anything until AFTER the bell rings, and I don't know where you're going to shoot until AFTER the bell rings.
Do you really think I can stop getting tagged? That I would be faster than a bullet? Sure, I have a ton of options available to me. Doesn't mean I have a chance to use it.
Now, imagine your two friends, Harver9 and Steve, are also with you, also with guns of their own. Now I have to react to three bullets.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But that's the thing - OK, I too admit, Batman's showings are PIS (I'm NOT saying they're valid lol in a forum - we are in agreement).Thanos has the tools to handle speedsters and make them his b!tches - absolutely. I am in agreement with this as well.
The thing is, would Thanos be able to use these tools? Darkseid too has tools to handle speedsters - he has TP, and he has the OB, plus Apokoliptian tech.
The way I see it, is this. Let's say, you and I are standing over 500m (the starting distance). You have a gun, trained on me. Ready to fire. Let's assume your gun has a laser sight, so I know exactly where you're going to shoot (but the laser doesn't turn on until the match bell rings). And let's assume you have bullet time reactions, so can fire the gun at speed. I have a belt, which has:
[list=1]
[*]A piece of adamantium 1 inch thick, and incredibly light (it's magical adamantium)
[*]Harry Potter's wand (assume I know dope-ass magic, and can freeze you, enact shields, whatever magical stuff I wanted)
[*]A magical Uzi, which never misses it's target
[/list]The bell rings. Speed doesn't matter? I could block your bullet with the adamantium, use the wand to fire off a spell, jump out of the way, or draw my own gun and shoot you.
But you have speed. I am slower than you, and DEFINITELY slower than the bullet. I can't do anything until AFTER the bell rings, and I don't know where you're going to shoot until AFTER the bell rings.
Do you really think I can stop getting tagged? That I would be faster than a bullet? Sure, I have a ton of options available to me. Doesn't mean I have a chance to use it.
Now, imagine your two friends, Harver9 and Steve, are also with you, also with guns of their own. Now I have to react to three bullets.
1. If you were capable of stopping a similar event in the past due to your tools, I would believe that you could do so again. Even if your assailants hit you, you still have the natural body armor to weather the assault and still net them up before too much damage is done.
2. If you also had the ability to match their flight speed, why would you still be considered to be slower than their approach when you could just retreat to put you plans into play.
3. If you had TP allowing you to peer into their minds while having the speed to put distance between yourself and them, would this not allow for you to also successfully pull off your plans?
4. Darkseid in character does not act like Thanos. Thanos immediately bfr'd Gladiator, and took out his team before he could return. At that time, Thanos did not show that he could fly.
My stance adheres to characterization, and power set. You want an absolute, without taking into account several variables that would come into play once the match began.
This never has to become a 3 on one scenario. it never has to become more than 3 force cubed beings trapped in a cube of force that was arguably as strong as Captain America's shield.
Originally posted by Stoic
1. If you were capable of stopping a similar event in the past due to your tools, I would believe that you could do so again. Even if your assailants hit you, you still have the natural body armor to weather the assault and still net them up before too much damage is done.
2. If you also had the ability to match their flight speed, why would you still be considered to be slower than their approach when you could just retreat to put you plans into play.
3. If you had TP allowing you to peer into their minds while having the speed to put distance between yourself and them, would this not allow for you to also successfully pull off your plans?
4. Darkseid in character does not act like Thanos. Thanos immediately bfr'd Gladiator, and took out his team before he could return. At that time, Thanos did not show that he could fly.
This never has to become a 3 on one scenario. it never has to become more than 3 force cubed beings trapped in a cube of force that was arguably as strong as Captain America's shield.
Well then we will take you out of the equation and place the proper character into it. Thanos would know their intentions from the start. Plot allowed them to know Darkseid's intentions before he ever arrived. This is not what would happen here. In fact they probably wouldn't even attempt a blitz in character without plot to drive their emotional states. They would fight to the best of their abilities, but they wouldn't become the murderous bunch that you are attempt to paint them as.
Thanos can fly it isn't a guess, and fly fast enough to keep pace with them as of now. This still never has to become a 3 on 1 pile on. No he can not match them punch for punch. Superman, Wonder Woman, and Captain Marvel can throw punches in bunches. He knows this just like we do. Darkseid is not Thanos, they have two different personalities and completely different agendas. You keep bringing plot into this while at the same time seem to desire to toss plot out.
I think that it is very possible that Thanos would cube them all up within the 80% range.
I think that the team reaches him lasso's him up punches and cuts him to ribbons within the 20% range.
My opinion comes from his past successes, and the idea that he has taken more than 66% of the team can inflict.
Originally posted by Stoic
None of those guys have Thanos' abilities to nail this ridiculous subject shut. You want to talk about something that may never be allowed to happen. H2H may never become a situation here. Think hard about this stance that you have. It makes no sense when Thanos has the power to shut a physical confrontation down. Why do you keep arguing? Oh because you want to make a point about Batman tagging reverse Flash, in order to call PIS? Thanos has the power to make any reader believe that defeating a speedster, or speedsters of this level were possible without a PIS tag being placed on it.Your entire point is irrelevant. None of this H2H has to happen. Ignore the evidence if you want to, just don't bring it up to me because you refuse to see the Fallen One's blitz halted, being disingenuous about it just makes you look bad. What do I mean? Well he stopped the Fallen One, a being capable of moving at FTL speeds from a starting position just like Team DC can, but you don't see the correlation between the two? Leo don't play with me bro.
How do you say that one would work while the other wouldn't? Double standard time?
hard to believe you can miss my point so completely. for, what, the third or fourth time--this isn't about thanos. it is about the logic you apply to his defense. how long ago did i say thanos wouldn't be a statue?
but here, let me lay out your double standard in crisp pixels since i'm not sure you get what it actually means to apply one.
Well he stopped the Fallen One, a being capable of moving at FTL speeds from a starting position just like Team DC canand then you throw in some flight speed feats and some other generic speed feats that 'support your case' and are willing to live and die by them.
i say--well, hulk has hit a blitzing sentry, and has actually performed a blitz himself, and hit other fast guys. does that mean HE's as fast as thanos too, and thereby as fast as these guys? it must. thor has even BETTER speed feats (by a long shot) than EITHER hulk or thanos. but...we've seen him overwhelmed by spidey (who has also overwhelmed hulk and even danced around ss), logan, quicksilver, mongoose and, yes, even gladiator (the hyperspeed fight is a perfect example of how much faster glads was than thor). so here we have thor smacking around heralds and moving multiples of light speed. surely HE has to be able to keep up with these guys too since he has even BETTER feats than thanos!?
if you say thanos can keep up BECAUSE OF THE EVIDENCE YOU'RE USING TO SUPPORT IT then surely other guys with the SAME or BETTER evidence, should be able to keep up as well. maybe they lack thanos's offense, but we're talking about NOT being statues, not actually WINNING the fight.
if not, then you are applying a double standard and all the pi$$ing at me, and thinking i'm being slick, can't help you. if you think hulk WOULDN'T be a statue in this fight, in a FORUM setting, or thor, then, well, we don't have anything more to talk about because your line of reasoning crumbles quickly and results in absurd conclusions when pursued much further (see DS's posts). /shrug
as i said--this is NOT about thanos. it IS about the double standard of proof you are using to support your stance. (btw, that's why i prefer my own stance on thanos in this fight--it doesn't actually require me to prove much of anything. 😛 )
Originally posted by leonidas
hard to believe you can miss my point so completely. for, what, the third or fourth time--this isn't about thanos. it is about the logic you apply to his defense. how long ago did i say thanos wouldn't be a statue?but here, let me lay out your double standard in crisp pixels since i'm not sure you get what it actually means to apply one.
and then you throw in some flight speed feats and some other generic speed feats that 'support your case' and are willing to live and die by them.
i say--well, hulk has hit a blitzing sentry, and has actually performed a blitz himself, and hit other fast guys. does that mean HE's as fast as thanos too, and thereby as fast as these guys? it must. thor has even BETTER speed feats (by a long shot) than EITHER hulk or thanos. but...we've seen him overwhelmed by spidey (who has also overwhelmed hulk and even danced around ss), logan, quicksilver, mongoose and, yes, even gladiator (the hyperspeed fight is a perfect example of how much faster glads was than thor). so here we have thor smacking around heralds and moving multiples of light speed. surely HE has to be able to keep up with these guys too since he has even BETTER feats than thanos!?
if you say thanos can keep up [b]BECAUSE OF THE EVIDENCE YOU'RE USING TO SUPPORT IT
then surely other guys with the SAME or BETTER evidence, should be able to keep up as well. maybe they lack thanos's offense, but we're talking about NOT being statues, not actually WINNING the fight.if not, then you are applying a double standard and all the pi$$ing at me, and thinking i'm being slick, can't help you. if you think hulk WOULDN'T be a statue in this fight, in a FORUM setting, or thor, then, well, we don't have anything more to talk about because your line of reasoning crumbles quickly and results in absurd conclusions when pursued much further (see DS's posts). /shrug
as i said--this is NOT about thanos. it IS about the double standard of proof you are using to support your stance. (btw, that's why i prefer my own stance on thanos in this fight--it doesn't actually require me to prove much of anything. 😛 ) [/B]
You're bringing up irrelevant characters. Thanos has tools that they do not have. All of what you wrote was irrelevant based on the tools that he brings to this fight.
Please don't bring the Hulk or Thor into this, because I am not concerned about them. Thanos is in this not them. And if you missed it, the Hulk can not fly, Thanos can. I read and understood everything that you said. You on the other hand seem to have difficulty understanding that this is not about these other characters that you've decided to use as red herrings.
There is no double standard on my part, because I was never interested in arguing the Hulk, Thor, or Batman. Thanos vs Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel is the topic of discussion. Thanos has stopped a blitz attempt at a weaker level by a character capable of moving at FTL flight speeds before he ever connected with him. It is within his character to do this. He also has TP to allow for him to know their intent before they act on it. In character how many times have they begun with a blitz opposed to flying in and giving their opponent the choice to surrender. I mean if you really want to get down to it, you're arguing from a purely power set perspective, and are attempting to undermine my train of thought? Really? Just think about it for a second brother.
