Originally posted by RealityWarper
You can argue that they spoke at super-speed but that's all that Superman did. ^^
Superman did several things besides talk. He turned around, manipulated the ring, etc.
In another feat, Superman walked around, took off his tie, had long conversations, all casually, inbetween nanoseconds.
Forget movement speed, the perception that everything is frozen should make it damn near impossible to hit him. He would see the attack coming in almost still motion. He could choose to get out of the way or get hit. But he has a choice.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
DS has OHK beams which chase down, change direction and have the potential to catch the Flash.Hardly the best example. If anything, it's PIS that these three can hang with him.
So since Jane Thor has a hammer that can change directions, speed wouldn’t matter to her?
So Shaggy man should be a statue?
Darkseid doesn’t show any superspeed. The superspeed/statue fallacy only applies to DC characters fighting Marvel characters. Jane Thor shows greater speed feats than Darkseid. Surfer shows greater speed feats than Darkseid. Odinson shows greater speed feats than Darkseid.
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Are you saying Superman can move like normal, but for some reason can't attack at that speed?Why you're still among us is beyond my understanding, friend.
And I'm not even talking about mods and bans, but natural selection in rl.
I have no obligation in following the bandwagon about some illogical reasoning.
If you want to believe that Superman is fast in combat after 75 years at being punched in the face by slowpokes and being unable to block or avoir their attacks, that's your choice mate.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman did several things besides talk. He turned around, manipulated the ring, etc.In another feat, Superman walked around, took off his tie, had long conversations, all casually, inbetween nanoseconds.
Forget movement speed, the perception that everything is frozen should make it damn near impossible to hit him. He would see the attack coming in almost still motion. He could choose to get out of the way or get hit. But he has a choice.
That's what you don't get...
Seeing things in slow motion doesn't gives him so much time to react... Just the feeling that he has.
At best you can pretend that gives him the choice tro TRY to defend himself or not but that's pretty much. AT BEST.
Mjolnir...who is sentient and is almost a character in her own right (I think she's female..)? Yup.
Yes, Shaggy Man should be a statue. If not, then he should be super fast, and blitzing Batman.
But he doesn't.
So either A it's a stupidly high showing for Batman,or B a stupidly low showing for Shaggy.
This of course also applies to DS.
Why do you not think DS is fast? Because others tag him.
So is it a low showing for DS,or a high showing for the others?
Let's stop using Batman, because apparently people don't like the inability to debate against him,lol.
Constantine? A mere human? Is that a better example? He reacted to Flash, Superman, DS, Shazam etc. Does that mean HE'S fast, or they're all human level in combat?
Let's use Marvel against Marvel. Wolverine. Cap? Strange? Any psychic worth their salt? BP? Kingpin? DD?
Every time they interact with a herald,does that mean the herald is that slow, that the street is that fast....or.....PIS?
Originally posted by TheHulkster
IDoesn’t matter. It’s not about what happens in the comic according to some.
I don't think anyone has said that.
The depictions of the characters in the comics give us the basis for the arguments that we make here. The one element that is removed in the forum as compared to comics is PIS. That should be pretty easy to recognize and reference in a debate.
I don't understand how that equates to people "NOT" using the comics for their arguments.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I don't think anyone has said that.The depictions of the characters in the comics give us the basis for the arguments that we make here. The one element that is removed in the forum as compared to comics is PIS. That should be pretty easy to recognize and reference in a debate.
I don't understand how that equates to people "NOT" using the comics for their arguments.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So since Jane Thor has a hammer that can change directions, speed wouldn’t matter to her?So Shaggy man should be a statue?
Darkseid doesn’t show any superspeed. The superspeed/statue fallacy only applies to DC characters fighting Marvel characters. Jane Thor shows greater speed feats than Darkseid. Surfer shows greater speed feats than Darkseid. Odinson shows greater speed feats than Darkseid.
On the point that DS has no superspeed.
This is him as a teenager (I think he was...17? 15?). He's already fighting a battle faster than WW has ever seen.
Now think back to all the fights she's witnessed. Fights with Flash,Superman, Cheetah, Zoom.
I've witnessed many battles, Steve, you know that...but nothing this fast!!!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3sf13u2_eAs/WkOKvwt0T7I/AAAAAAAAFhk/T1_Ae9h8IaU5_EluvU9wiAj5QcpR8GGCwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO013.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L98kbqqLxvk/WkOKwdzjUsI/AAAAAAAAFhw/AzmzhCM8O7Y8OWaLfFwXqyga3aYogKuqACHMYCw/s1600/RCO014.jpg
Only a moment behind them...but so much has happened!!
and guys like ds and even thanos to an extent, are usually given lee-way by most reasonable posters. they tend to see the universe differently than most lower level guys. given thanos's past and his experiences, i wouldn't say he would be a statue in this match. he has enough experience with time and reality manipulation to make an argument that he could keep up with these characters. at least imo. speed COULD be used against him, but i'm not sure it's a failsafe argument, like flash speed is against someone like hulk. /shrug speed wouldn't be a factor imo against most (or any) cosmic level guys (like galactus, maybe even odin) they have other perceptual advantages.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
You can argue that they spoke at super-speed but that's all that Superman did. ^^
So he can just talk at speed, but do nothing else? That's a hard case to make, tbh.
Superman has proven combat superspeed. Just because the plot demands that he not use it, or he himself decides not to use it, doesn't erase the mountain of evidence that he has it.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So since Jane Thor has a hammer that can change directions, speed wouldn’t matter to her?So Shaggy man should be a statue?
Darkseid doesn’t show any superspeed. The superspeed/statue fallacy only applies to DC characters fighting Marvel characters. Jane Thor shows greater speed feats than Darkseid. Surfer shows greater speed feats than Darkseid. Odinson shows greater speed feats than Darkseid.
Darksaid has actual superspeed, at least in terms of reactions.
And you really should stop trying to make this some Marvel vs DC thing. It's a speed thing.
==
Also, everyone? Stop with the ****ing bashing. Disagreeing with someone, or thinking their argument is stupid, isn't a reason to be an ******* about it.
Originally posted by -Pr-
So he can just talk at speed, but do nothing else? That's a hard case to make, tbh.
Are you thinking that it is legit to pick a scan and give a character an ability that he never demonstrated to have and not correlated to the scan in question ?
Superman has proven combat superspeed.
Superman has thrown some flurry of punches at high speed a very few times which is an all-out attack and not really combat speed as it is intended to be because it imply that the character is actually able to do other combat manoeuvres at high speed, not just attacking but defending, avoiding, etc...
And the rare characters that Superman "outspeed" in combat were slow character without combat speed feats: Probes, Doomsday, etc... It is hard to make a case for a character when only one or two attacks at best are throwed on panel and that the main character isn't capable to avoid or block it, right ?
And this isn't just the case for Superman but it is too for characters like Sentry, Thor, Hulk, etc...
Just because the plot demands that he not use it, or he himself decides not to use it, doesn't erase the mountain of evidence that he has it.
The plot doesn't demand for a character to use an ability he doesn't posses.
Superman isn't different than other comic book characters regarding to this.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Are you thinking that it is legit to pick a scan and give a character an ability that he never demonstrated to have and not correlated to the scan in question ?Superman has thrown some flurry of punches at high speed a very few times which is an all-out attack and not really combat speed as it is intended to be because it imply that the character is actually able to do other combat manoeuvres at high speed, not just attacking but defending, avoiding, etc...
And the rare characters that Superman "outspeed" in combat were slow character without combat speed feats: Probes, Doomsday, etc... It is hard to make a case for a character when only one or two attacks at best are throwed on panel and that the main character isn't capable to avoid or block it, right ?
And this isn't just the case for Superman but it is too for characters like Sentry, Thor, Hulk, etc...
The plot doesn't demand for a character to use an ability he doesn't posses.
Superman isn't different than other comic book characters regarding to this.
That's a fair bit of lowballing you're doing there.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
How am I lowballing ?We can even make statistics if you want.
If we do that, the amount of instances of Superman using his superspeed in a way that showcases his reactions would make the argument for him win.
Mods have been through this before: He has superspeed. The comics support this. It's to the degree that's to be measured, just like we do with things like strength, durability and so on.
To deny that the man has impressive combat speed (relatively), is to be as obtuse as to say Cyclops doesn't shoot red beams out of his eyes.
