Originally posted by krisblaze
I don't for a second buy that the Flash could steal Superman's speed.It's just him absorbing kinetic energy, and I don't see why his energy control should trump Superman or Jordan's.
He could cut them off from the speed-force, but that's only something that works on DC characters.
I think the Flash would win this because he could hammer them all to death at superspeed 👆
there's nothing to buy though--it's happened, on panel. easily. and he's just as easily leant his speed to the league. the speed force is the source of all motion--whoever controls is, controls motion, plain and simple. its one of the reasons flash is so haxx and that i don't debate him anymore.
saying his motion control wouldn't affect marvel guys goes against the forum rules sort of that state all powers work equally well. it's why we can argue that ss might be able to resist a speed steal--his own energy control might be able to counter a speed steal. i don't really know if i buy that, but we can argue it BECAUSE flash's motion control works fine in a forum setting against all opponents.
Originally posted by leonidas
there's nothing to buy though--it's happened, on panel. easily. and he's just as easily leant his speed to the league. the speed force is the source of all motion--whoever controls is, controls motion, plain and simple. its one of the reasons flash is so haxx and that i don't debate him anymore.saying his motion control wouldn't affect marvel guys goes against the forum rules sort of that state all powers work equally well. it's why we can argue that ss might be able to resist a speed steal--his own energy control might be able to counter a speed steal. i don't really know if i buy that, but we can argue it BECAUSE flash's motion control works fine in a forum setting against all opponents.
Flash has access to all of his powers but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be able to abuse weaknesses that are inherent to DC characters.
The speed force doesn't exist in Marvel.
Cutting their connection to something they've never been connected to?
Are all Marvel characters connected to the, red, green and rot also then??
Originally posted by krisblaze
Flash has access to all of his powers but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be able to abuse weaknesses that are inherent to DC characters.The speed force doesn't exist in Marvel.
Cutting their connection to something they've never been connected to?
Are all Marvel characters connected to the, red, green and rot also then??
That's what I pointed out and the answer was "everything work".
I guess it was implied that DC characters gain free and new abilities they doesn't possess, especially against Marvel characters.
On topic:
I agree with you and Flash shouldn't be able to manipulate the speed force inside characters whom aren't imbued by it.
for forum purposes yeah, i think they are... there is no power cosmic in dc, but we assume ss's powers work exactly the same way. what you're suggesting makes sense in a comic setting (in fact we SAW flash cut off from the sf once in the marvel u) but it can't work in a forum setting. i don't think this is anything new....? 😕
Originally posted by leonidas
for forum purposes yeah, i think they are... there is no power cosmic in dc, but we assume ss's powers work exactly the same way. what you're suggesting makes sense in a comic setting (in fact we SAW flash cut off from the sf once in the marvel u) but it can't work in a forum setting. i don't think this is anything new....? 😕
I guess that you mean the Cosmic Awareness, not the Power Cosmic.
Originally posted by leonidas
for forum purposes yeah, i think they are... there is no power cosmic in dc, but we assume ss's powers work exactly the same way. what you're suggesting makes sense in a comic setting (in fact we SAW flash cut off from the sf once in the marvel u) but it can't work in a forum setting. i don't think this is anything new....? 😕
Im not saying Flash's powers shouldn't work. Are you being willfully obtuse here? 😛
Im saying that we shouldn't assume that all characters are connected to company-specific abstract concepts.
The pink lanterns dont draw their powers from mistress love do they? Nor are DC mages all connected to the energy matrix in otherworld? Does the Britain Corps hold sway over the 52 universes in DC?
Are all DC telepaths connected to the neural net that the Shadow King dominated? Or connected to the game master?
It's just not workable.
Originally posted by leonidas
for forum purposes yeah, i think they are... there is no power cosmic in dc, but we assume ss's powers work exactly the same way. what you're suggesting makes sense in a comic setting (in fact we SAW flash cut off from the sf once in the marvel u) but it can't work in a forum setting. i don't think this is anything new....? 😕
This is interesting.
Should the Speed Force be assumed to be at play with Marvel characters? I think we should assume it would work like normal in the sense of super-speed but a specific weakness against another character? I mean, it's fair to assume the Flash can steal the kinetic energy of any character, but if the stealing of that kinetic energy is directed linked to a Speed Force connection, then it shouldn't be in play imo.
For the record, the way I remember it being described, the Speed Force is a separate force that didn't control all kinetic energy. It simply allowed Flash to steal kinetic energy through it's extra-dimensional energy properties.
DC has an interconnection between forces that serves as a strength. The weaknesses should be taken into account with that strength.
I don't think the Power Cosmic is the same thing for example. It's just another extra-dimensional source of energy that has only been used to above normal effects against other heralds, not other Marvel characters, much less DC characters. If the Surfer drained Terrax because of the Power Cosmic, and someone tried to use that as evidence against the Flash, I'd think that was stupid AF for example.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol.But in all seriousness, people are, for the most part, misunderstanding your (simple) question.
Can he?
The answer is of course, yes. It is certainly feasible to do so. With his speed, he can make this entire thread one-on-one.
Morrison's Flash, after all, was the one capable of running through as many battle simulations as needed to find the perfect battle tactic:
https://s5.postimg.org/a9y771wev/image.jpgMorrison's Flash was the one who did the IMP.
Was the one who could run so fast, he time-travelled and made time clones:
https://s5.postimg.org/c2ns9iudz/image.jpgSo if anything, he could multiply himself, and then the Ultimates have multiple Flashes to handle.
Of course, there's Monica.
But Monica is slower than thought:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--U1DSF_wGYI/WOzhH8XZL2I/AAAAAAADJ4M/iIfFwJEi1WYvJw-nQN8TTo5hrCvpxEDBgCLcB/s1600/90_10.jpgAnd when she's at her top speed (so slower than thought), America Chavez moves in slow motion compared to her:
http://i.imgur.com/0SWq6vN.pngAnd Flashes?
https://s5.postimg.org/5dzmch2l3/image.jpghttps://s5.postimg.org/iq6lqw9qv/image.jpg
I tried to stick to the parameters of the thread, and limited the showings to Morrison era Flash only.
Tbf, speed of thought versus speed of light, isn't consistent across the board.
As a matter of fact, it's been used to trump the Flash in the past....
I get what you're saying, but it's a faulty argument. And an argument I wouldn't make with a character as inconsistent as the Flash. I could see Monica herself being an excellent and competitive opponent by herself, against even Morrison's Flash. He'd win, through a clever utilization of his power, but he'd put in work. She can transform into any type of energy including brain waves, become intangible and fight at FTL. Morrison would have a field day with that powerset.
For the record, the Flash might be faster than light, but the idea that he is consistently breezing around at ftl speeds is untrue. More than one instance, even post-Waid, had crossing light-barrier into the Speed Force being a serious strain.
As a matter of fact, some of the craziest feats he has accomplished being posted here, where he has other DC character's looking like statutes, are under the same writers who have him crossing light speed as a serious strain.
By those standards, Ms. Chavez moving in slow motion when Monica is in super-speed mode would put her a fair bit ahead of some particular characters. mhmm
Edit: I forgot this was against the entire team. Smh. Wally obviously losses. Don't be crackheads. Could he win? Yes, but he could win against the JLA too, but that shit wouldn't be likely either.
The Flash is ridiculously fast. Too fast tbh. If Monica is arguably the fastest character on the Ultimates (light speed), this would make the Flash millions of times faster than she is. I mentioned her being arguably the fastest, because Blue Marvel has yet to be clocked, although it was written that he was somewhere around light speed, but no known speed speed cap was actually given. Anyway, like I said, the Flash is simply too fast.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tbf, speed of thought versus speed of light, isn't consistent across the board.As a matter of fact, it's been used to trump the Flash in the past....
I get what you're saying, but it's a faulty argument. And an argument I wouldn't make with a character as inconsistent as the Flash. I could see Monica herself being an excellent and competitive opponent by herself, against even Morrison's Flash. He'd win, through a clever utilization of his power, but he'd put in work. She can transform into any type of energy including brain waves, become intangible and fight at FTL. Morrison would have a field day with that powerset.
For the record, the Flash might be faster than light, but the idea that he is consistently breezing around at ftl speeds is untrue. More than one instance, even post-Waid, had crossing light-barrier into the Speed Force being a serious strain.
As a matter of fact, some of the craziest feats he has accomplished being posted here, where he has other DC character's looking like statutes, are under the same writers who have him crossing light speed as a serious strain.
By those standards, Ms. Chavez moving in slow motion when Monica is in super-speed mode would put her a fair bit ahead of some particular characters. mhmm
Edit: I forgot this was against the entire team. Smh. Wally obviously losses. Don't be crackheads. Could he win? Yes, but he could win against the JLA too, but that shit wouldn't be likely either.
Lol so IOW, as Wally could win (as you say in your last paragraph) we are all in agreement.
for the love of god speed of thought and speed of light is not even in the same planet
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/1724531-supesflash15.jpg
flash has attosecond reaction time, 0.000000000000000001 second
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
speed of thought is 30 m/s (meter/second)
The speed of thought is obviously how fast impulses go from your brain to the rest of your body. That's measurable. It isn't undefined.
Originally posted by MrMind
for the love of god speed of thought and speed of light is not even in the same planet
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/1724531-supesflash15.jpg
flash has attosecond reaction time, 0.000000000000000001 secondhttp://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
speed of thought is 30 m/s (meter/second)
The speed of thought is obviously how fast impulses go from your brain to the rest of your body. That's measurable. It isn't undefined.
Writers in comics treat speed of thought > light sometimes. It's not about real life comparison. It's how it is in some instances.
Originally posted by MrMind
for the love of god speed of thought and speed of light is not even in the same planet
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/1724531-supesflash15.jpg
flash has attosecond reaction time, 0.000000000000000001 secondhttp://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
speed of thought is 30 m/s (meter/second)
The speed of thought is obviously how fast impulses go from your brain to the rest of your body. That's measurable. It isn't undefined.
Speed of thought is up there with speed of light more often than not.
Originally posted by Zack M
Do you guys have examples? The only writer I know that had Speed of thought>>>Speed of light is Chris Claremont. But, he's the same writer who had Psylocke beat Iron Man. lo
There is no evidence because its not true, only an idiot would think otherwise, and if we take the words of idiots we might as well gracefully accept every PIS feats there is
Originally posted by MrMind
There is no evidence because its not true, only an idiot would think otherwise, and if we take the words of idiots we might as well gracefully accept every PIS feats there is
Thought > Light
Not the only time it's mentioned against Grodd. Not the only time it's been mentioned in comics.
You took a firm stance on something you're ignorant about, were corrected, and chose to entrench your opinion even harder, calling those who disagree an idiot? Bro, you're the idiot here.
No one is arguing light vs. thought in real life. We're just giving you information. For some reason it seems to be blowing your mind. Not sure why, it's comics.
