Darth Maul vs. Vitiate

Started by The Merchant7 pages

Maul slicing those dudes in a flicker of an eyelash is something that needs to be quantified.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I mean if we want to go OOU, ANH has clear production limitations that don't really apply to TOR. The in-universe explanation is that Arcann was stalling anyway.

Are you saying it can't speed up the fight to 25x speed, which is probably where you think Vader and Obi-Wan's actual speed is relative to that fight?

Answer: I'm pretty sure it has that capability.

The reason why that never happened is the same reason Arcann doesn't move faster than we can see either.

I'm also interested in seeing where Arcann was stalling.

Originally posted by ILS
Not always.

Missed this: care to point to specific examples of powerful Force users significantly slower than weaker Force users?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Missed this: care to point to specific examples of powerful Force users significantly slower than weaker Force users?
Kyp Durron is absurdly powerful but isn't even faster than Kyle Katarn, Mara or Jaina. And he actually trains with a lightsaber unlike Vitiate.

If you want to prove Vitiate has good reaction speed, I need more than "he's super powerful" - Force speed and lightsaber combat are skills that improve with training like any other.

In case anyone didn't know, Zakuul is a Force nexus, so Valkorion was amped when he blocked those saber strikes. Anyone wanna prove Vitiate can block lightsaber attacks off-nexus?

Any other examples? Durron is quite unconvincing since his raw power and applicable power doesn't translate well due to reasons he noted in NJO.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Any other examples? Durron is quite unconvincing since his raw power and applicable power doesn't translate well due to reasons he noted in NJO.
Vitiate's a good one.

How about you go ahead and show me where raw power and Force speed improve perfectly linearly.

Originally posted by Azronger
In case anyone didn't know, Zakuul is a Force nexus, so Valkorion was amped when he blocked those saber strikes. Anyone wanna prove Vitiate can block lightsaber attacks off-nexus?

Arcann was also amped, and yes, Chapter 16.

ILS wrecking itt like

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate's a good one.

How about you go ahead and show me where raw power and Force speed improve perfectly linearly.

👆

In the novel, Vitiate clearly had worse reaction time than Revan.

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate's a good one.

How about you go ahead and show me where raw power and Force speed improve perfectly linearly.


I would point to the prequel trilogy as the golden example, but I find the burden of proof is more on you, since my stance holds logically --

Factually, the more midichlorians a Force-user has, the more Force energy flowing into them, logically meaning greater augmentation of speed.

There are exceptions to this rule in individuals who devote their Force energy specifically to speed, but they are weaker in all other areas (i.e. Raskta Lsu).

Mace is another exception in which, via Vaapad, he's able to augment his body with an amount of Force energy beyond that he normally could.

In the case of Vitiate vs Maul, there's no reason for normal conditions to not hold true. Based on what Vitiate does in KOTFE/KOTET, it definitely seems true.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There are exceptions to this rule in individuals who devote their Force energy specifically to speed, but they are weaker in all other areas (i.e. Raskta Lsu).

And yet Maul vs. Vitiate represents, to some extent, that dichotomy, as Maul has trained his entire life to be a ruthlessly efficient assassin and duelist while Vitiate demonstrates complete ineptitude any time he actually has to fight someone seriously. It's hardly implausible to imagine that Maul would have better refined close quarters reaction times due to a combo of greater practice using the Force in that context and generally superior awareness/training/etc.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I would point to the prequel trilogy as the golden example, but I find the burden of proof is more on you, since my stance holds logically --

Factually, the more midichlorians a Force-user has, the more Force energy flowing into them, logically meaning greater augmentation of speed.

Speed augmentation is something that 1. requires training and 2. can be increased by pouring more effort into it specifically.

To suggest that this isn't a craft that needs to be honed with intense training is a bit silly.

There are exceptions to this rule in individuals who devote their Force energy specifically to speed, but they are weaker in all other areas (i.e. Raskta Lsu).
Yeah. What you spend time on, you tend to be stronger at.

Mace is another exception in which, via Vaapad, he's able to augment his body with an amount of Force energy beyond that he normally could.
Mace's speed is a direct product of his intense training, the Sidious fight being irrelevant. His most impressive descriptions of speed tend to refer to his lightsaber mimicing the Vaapad creature the style is named after, which happens to be extremely fast.

In the case of Vitiate vs Maul, there's no reason for this not to hold true. Based on what Vitiate does in KOTFE/KOTET, it definitely seems true.
Vitiate who has, to my knowledge, no worthwhile lightsaber accomplishments or any vested interest in training with one.

We're talking about novel Vitiate here.

edit

Vitiate demonstrates a Juyo lightsaber sequence, circa 3900BBY.

Originally posted by ILS
Kyp Durron is absurdly powerful but isn't even faster than Kyle Katarn, Mara or Jaina. And he actually trains with a lightsaber unlike Vitiate.

These are some good points ILS 👆

Tbh I think that Vitiate's standing in relation to his speed needs to be revisited. This can greatly influence his postion in the pecking order too.

Example:

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate demonstrates a Juyo lightsaber sequence, circa 3900BBY.


👆

Nobody, in a span of 1300+ years, was able to blitz Vitiate but Darth Maul will.

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Proof that Vitiate lifted a chair?

Darth Maul did it

Proof that Vitiate closed a door?

Darth Maul did it

Darth Maul > Vitiate

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KMC debating 101

Sheevites are turning into the biggest bunch of trolls at this rate.

Originally posted by Azronger
In case anyone didn't know, Zakuul is a Force nexus, so Valkorion was amped when he blocked those saber strikes. Anyone wanna prove Vitiate can block lightsaber attacks off-nexus?

They were in orbit, actually.

That doesn't mean he wasn't amped lol

The burden would be on you to prove that he was.

Also the Outlander replicates the feat after getting powered up by Valk (though still far inferior to him).