TPM Maul vs. Jedi Dooku

Originally posted by relentless1
this may have been hyperbole on the part of Plagueis but its always seemed to me that the Jedi know that their Sith counterparts are superior

Plagueis himself admitted they'd get wrecked by the jedi order if they took them head on which shouldn't be the case if power was equally distributed to the members of each alignment.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Well, actually we don't know that. Part of Maul's technique is utilizing a saber staff, Kenobi clearly struggles with single blade Maul thereafter in TPM. The next time we see Kenobi fight Maul with a saber staff he also defeats him in seconds.

That's because Rebels Kenobi suckered Maul in with Qui-Gon's stance, and Maul used the same move to defeat him that he used against Qui-Gon.

We've been explained that by both the Rebels Recon on the episode and by Witwer. So no point in disputing it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not saying he wasn't, I'm saying that Dooku would not be. We see Dooku face off against a far more powerful Anakin, and get demolished. Uh, yes you can, when people portray Maul vs. Kenobi in TPM as a MAUL ZOMGODSTOMP, when in fact he was very hard pressed to defeat him, and again got his weapon destroyed and put on his ass. Granted by this point TPM Kenobi was easily performing at master level, but the point still stands that this was a hard duel for Maul by this point, arguably the most difficult of his life. And TPM Kenobi isn't exactly Dooku or Mace Windu as far as bladework goes.

I don't know where you're getting that it was such a hard fight for Maul. He got caught off guard once, but still defeated him, and it didn't take much longer than the time it took to defeat Qui-Gon (both on Naboo and on Tatooine).

You have Ventress disarming Kenobi in TCW movie, yet Kenobi goes on to stomp her. Savage disarms Dooku, yet Dooku still manages to fight off him and Ventress.

Being disarmed of part or all of your weapon isn't the end of the world.

No Enraged TPM Kenobi wasn't on Dooku or Windu level, but then TPM Maul wouldn't defeat Dooku or Windu in 35 seconds either. Maul force pushing Kenobi down the shaft was showing Maul being the superior duelist/combatant. Because Kenobi didn't anticipate and try to block it.

Now if Kenobi attempted to block the Force push and still got overpowered (like Anakin vs Dooku in TCW movie), then you could argue Kenobi matched Maul with a blade but Maul only won due to superior TK. But that's not how it happened. If not a Force push, it would have been a punch or a kick, but either way Kenobi was going to get defeated in direct combat, because he simply wasn't on par with Maul as a combatant at the time.

Originally posted by ILS
We often take for granted the enormous power boost Dooku received with Sidious' tutelage, yet people have no issues pontificating over how massively omfgwtf super powerful Maul became in TCW because he started lifting heavy things. It's quite funny.

Based on the [b]fact Dooku was introduced to "powers beyond his most spectacular fantasies" by Sidious, aka powers Maul had already been extensively tutored in, and based on the fact Dooku has no accomplishments to outrank Maul's own capabilities at this time, I'll need to throw the vote to the more deserving party. Maul wins.

Likely a good fight though. [/B]

Is it plausible that Qui Gon had a potential on the level of Dooku?

I mean, as per the Core Rulebook, Yoda considered Qui Gon as a youngling to be better than Dooku( the best student he had trained in over 400 years in the Order and this fits in what we know about Yoda which is that he gave up the training of apprentices somewhere in the middle and began training younglings in the Jedi fundamentals to prepare them for their journey as a padawan). Additionally, Dooku also gives Qui Gon some pretty excellent hype and holds him in pretty high regard.

Given that TPM Maul's position is more or less on the same level( whether he is above or below Dooku is up for interpretation) as TPM Dooku's and that Qui Gon was pretty competent against Maul, it kind of fits what we know about them.

TPM Dooku's "exact" position also seems to be wavering below TPM Maul's position, so we can easily deduce that Qui Gon is reasonably close to TPM Dooku. In addition, there is a gap of 10 years between them. Could Qui Gon bridge that gap in that much time?

As for "exhaustion" which is likely to be a counterargument, firstly, we don't know how well Dooku who is infinitely weaker than ROTS Dooku would fare against an enemy like Maul and secondly, Qui Gon uses a form that is the most likely to exhaust someone of his age, while Dooku uses a form that is "least" likely to exhaust someone of his age, which is a pretty big factor to consider.

At least, this is how it looks like, which is my interpretation. It may not be the case. Thoughts on the matter?

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Is it plausible that Qui Gon had a potential on the level of Dooku?

I mean, as per the Core Rulebook, Yoda considered Qui Gon as a youngling to be better than Dooku( the best student he had trained in over 400 years in the Order and this fits in what we know about Yoda which is that he gave up the training of apprentices somewhere in the middle and began training younglings in the Jedi fundamentals to prepare them for their journey as a padawan). Additionally, Dooku also gives Qui Gon some pretty excellent hype and holds him in pretty high regard.

Given that TPM Maul's position is more or less on the same level( whether he is above or below Dooku is up for interpretation) as TPM Dooku's and that Qui Gon was pretty competent against Maul, it kind of fits what we know about them.

I always took that to mean that QGJ had a better understanding of the Force that mirrored and/or surpassed that of Dooku and (possibly) Yoda due to the whole force ghost spiel, not necessarily combat prowess.

How much understanding of the force can a youngling have?

Besides when put into the context of the TPM novel, it is pretty obvious that it is referring to combative prowess only.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
How much understanding of the force can a youngling have?

Besides when put into the context of the TPM novel, it is pretty obvious that it is referring to combative prowess only.

Wasn't Dooku a fiery tempered youngling?

*shrug. Regardless, you may or not be right. as in Legacy of the Jedi? I think it's what it is called. I think there's a quote calling Padawan!Jinn an equal to Jedi!Dooku so *shrug