recent feats--marvel vs dc

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Jeez. I never noticed that. 👆

You never noticed Bran cropping scans? Here is what happens when they crash into big bang.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/37712292/Silver_Surfer_013-007.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/37712297/Silver_Surfer_013-008.jpg.html

Nothing happened. They just crossed into previous universe.

Damn, that's pretty impressive. Surfer slowly racking up some STUPID feats.

We need to reopen the Thor vs. Surfer thread. For the first time in their history, I think Surfer would take the majority at the moment.

*SOBS*

Well, for two more months anyways.

Oh ye of little faith.

Fell to Brandon trickery again?

😂

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What exactly is a peaceful explosion?

Now I'm the one that can' quote people. Lmao, this forum.

"The Big Bang was an expansion of space, not like an explosion at all, despite what countless books, videos, articles and statements (even by scientists) often depict. Let’s look at the differences between an explosion of something into space versus an expansion of space."

IE, what we're discussing. Do you think Slott has time to look into white male theories when he has women to defend on Twitter?

You just said that we should use the scientific explanation of the big bang, since that's what Slott referenced:

The fact that "big bang" was used more than once to describe this phenomenon shows it was an explosion, and it was likened to how Earth scientists describe the big bang, which means it's as we define it, as opposed to a... silent expanse?

...because you didn't know how the Big Bang is defined in scientific circles, which is exactly an expanse of space/time. You got tricked by the term explosion, and you went all cocky "haha, it's explosion brah, not expansion, what are you talking about?". Admit this, Branlet! When will you learn? etc. etc.

Now you're saying the exact reverse, and that we should ignore what science says, and go back to it being a 'fictional' big bang.

Fuc k you, Bran, the First of his kind. I don't have the patience for this games.

If we go purely by what Slott showed in fiction (hey, we're back there!), then Surfer was at the center of void expanding with potential matter/energy. To take it further, there are no laws of physics there, there is no such thing as space/time formed in the first place, kinetic energy, atoms, distance, velocity, nothing etc. It's a literal void, with no concept that applies in the normal Universe. There is no frame of reference to even prove it has anything to do with durability.He got engulfed by literally nothing.

I also advise you not to start talking about dark matter/energy based on what you've just googled in 5 minutes. I've read on this for days on end, and it's much more complicated than you think, and the properties of dark matter/energy are much more complicated than you think -- and if there's anything I don't want to do, it's a pseudo-seminar on it on this forum. When you read "space is expanding at lightspeed++ you don't understand that it doesn't work like an object hurled in normal space. Because the Universe is expanding in non-space. That's why the expansion could be faster than light, and not obey the laws of physics. Outside of the Universe there is nothing. And I don't mean empty space -- I mean there's not even space itself.

So you have two options here:
1). Surfer was explicitly at the center of an empty void expanding away from his direction, and which had only potential energy/matter
2). Surfer was at the center of something similar to our real world big bang, which was again, not an explosion, but space expanding around him.

None of them are a durability feat. It's why Surfer literally had no reaction, and there was zero emphasis on him tanking anything. It's just him standing as the Universe balloons around him.

Use quickquote function.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ask Celey. Apparently big bang is not a violent explosion.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Now I'm the one that can' quote people. Lmao, this forum.

You just said that we should use the scientific explanation of the big bang, since that's what Slott referenced:

...because you didn't know how the Big Bang is defined in scientific circles, which is exactly an expanse of space/time. You got tricked by the term explosion, and you went all cocky "haha, it's explosion brah, not expansion, what are you talking about?". Admit this, Branlet! When will you learn? etc. etc.

Now you're saying the exact reverse, and that we should ignore what science says, and go back to it being a 'fictional' big bang.

Fuc k [b]you, Bran, the First of his kind. I don't have the patience for this games.

If we go purely by what Slott showed in fiction (hey, we're back there!), then Surfer was at the center of void expanding with potential matter/energy. To take it further, there are no laws of physics there, there is no such thing as space/time formed in the first place, kinetic energy, atoms, distance, velocity, nothing etc. It's a literal void, with no concept that applies in the normal Universe. There is no frame of reference to even prove it has anything to do with durability.He got engulfed by literally nothing.

I also advise you not to start talking about dark matter/energy based on what you've just googled in 5 minutes. I've read on this for days on end, and it's much more complicated than you think, and the properties of dark matter/energy are much more complicated than you think -- and if there's anything I don't want to do, it's a pseudo-seminar on it on this forum. When you read "space is expanding at lightspeed++ you don't understand that it doesn't work like an object hurled in normal space. Because the Universe is expanding in non-space. That's why the expansion could be faster than light, and not obey the laws of physics. Outside of the Universe there is nothing. And I don't mean empty space -- I mean there's not even space itself.

So you have two options here:
1). Surfer was explicitly at the center of an empty void expanding away from his direction, and which had only potential energy/matter
2). Surfer was at the center of something similar to our real world big bang, which was again, not an explosion, but space expanding around him.

None of them are a durability feat. It's why Surfer literally had no reaction, and there was zero emphasis on him tanking anything. It's just him standing as the Universe balloons around him. [/B]

It doesn't matter what it's portrayed as because either way is bad. But it was clearly the way Marvel has portrayed them at every turn. Ie, something you don't want to be around. I trust I don't have to show every big bang ever showed on panel?

That's an interesting take on the explosion big bang. Matt Strassler defines it as:
"In Figure 1 is shown a_before_and_after_of an explosion. Initially there is some space, with a seed — a bomb or a grenade or star or some other form of stored energy — sitting in it. The space is pre-existing, and so is the seed. Then something happens and the seed explodes. What was inside the seed undergoes some kind of transformation — for instance, a chemical reaction or a nuclear reaction — and energy is released. This creates tremendous heat and pressure inside the seed. The forces associated with the compressed heat and pressure cause the seed’s insides to expand outward as a hot ball of material. The energy comes out as the high speed and temperature of the seed’s insides, and the pressure and temperature gradually decrease as the interior of the seed expands outward into the pre-existing space in which it originally sat."

"Notice that the cause of the explosion is a reaction that creates tremendous heat and pressure inside a tiny region. It is the imbalance between the huge pressure and heat_inside_the seed compared to the low pressure and temperature_outside_the seed that causes the seed to explode outward. And the things inside the speed move with high velocity, rushing apart from their initial location. Their speed relative to their starting point can’t be larger than light, so there’s a limit to how quickly they can recede from each other."

In other words, it wasn't nothing. The "nothing" from that series was them trying to time travel past the big bang. And Dan Slott thought there was velocity when he had the halves sent hurtling to the opposite ends of the universe

So if space suddenly expands on someone at beyond lightspeed, it would have zero effect? Because Matt Strassler says anything that existed before inflation would be pulled apart and taken with it.

Wait, how would all of this miss Surfer anyway? Nevermind the fact that it engulfed him, but he was almost at point zero? It would either spill out, or it would explode. There is no missing him.

I somewhat favor where Leo is coming from.

But I am more bothered by how a few characters are being thrown around. Specifically Wally and Kyle. At least Kyle still retains a solid presence, where Wally appearances is treated as a cameo. 🙁

I get it. The return of Barry and Hal would equate to reducing the status quo of Wally and Kyle, given that only one can hold the mantle as the go to Flash/GL. But god phucking damn it. Do need to deconstruct a characters history just to make the other look better?

I cant be the only one bothered by this? Especially with the recent dumbness of the GL comic. Why would Kyle struggle to handle Hal's GL Ring? He had his trail by fire when he battled Oblivion for control of the energies of the Central Battery. He had another personal battle when was dealing with the conflicting energies of Ion and Starheart energies which he goes on to control just fin at the end of his Ion run. He goes on another personal battle in harassing and mastering the energies of the entire spectrum which later becomes the white ring, and harnessing emotional entities. And for phuck sakes some of these victories came with overcoming serious emotional burden from dealing with personal losses.

I just cant fanthom the idea of Kyle struggling to handle Hal's ring when he has experience handling the energies and forces far greater the ring. At least not without ignoring all his accomplishments. So then what? I just take a piss on the fandom built by his stories.

Lets just call it for what it is. Big of Comic companies taking a piss at the lore built upon years of reading to drive up a poorly written plot. Marvel is doing it to Thor with induction of Jane. DC is doing the same Kyle.

/end rant

That's an interesting take on the explosion big bang. Matt Strassler defines it as:
"In Figure 1 is shown a_before_and_after_of an explosion. Initially there is some space, with a seed — a bomb or a grenade or star or some other form of stored energy — sitting in it. The space is pre-existing, and so is the seed. Then something happens and the seed explodes. What was inside the seed undergoes some kind of transformation — for instance, a chemical reaction or a nuclear reaction — and energy is released. This creates tremendous heat and pressure inside the seed. The forces associated with the compressed heat and pressure cause the seed’s insides to expand outward as a hot ball of material. The energy comes out as the high speed and temperature of the seed’s insides, and the pressure and temperature gradually decrease as the interior of the seed expands outward into the pre-existing space in which it originally sat."

"Notice that the cause of the explosion is a reaction that creates tremendous heat and pressure inside a tiny region. It is the imbalance between the huge pressure and heat_inside_the seed compared to the low pressure and temperature_outside_the seed that causes the seed to explode outward. And the things inside the speed move with high velocity, rushing apart from their initial location. Their speed relative to their starting point can’t be larger than light, so there’s a limit to how quickly they can recede from each other."

In other words, it wasn't nothing

Bran...are you serious? You can't read.

He's describing a normal explosion there.

Then he starts describing how the big bang differs from that.

You have to scroll down to see him describe the Big Bang:

[quote]In Figure 2 is depicted the process (which may have already been going on before the moment of the left-hand figure) of an expansion of space. Between the left-hand picture and the right-hand picture, space has doubled in size, as you can see by the grid of lines. Things inside the space that are held together by powerful forces, such as chairs, tables, cats and people, do not expand — only the space in which they sit does. In short, space becomes more abundant, so there’s simply more room for the objects inside it.

Note that the objects do not intrinsically move! There’s no heat or pressure pushing them anywhere; they’ve not been kicked. It’s simply that the space between them and around them is growing, appearing out of nowhere, making the distances between them larger than before. And the increase (for uniform expansion) is uniform. In the right-hand picture, the distance between the cat and the table has doubled; so has the distance between the cat and the chair. That’s what happens when the universe doubles in size.[/quoted]

Jesus Christ, man..

So if space suddenly expands on someone at beyond lightspeed, it would have zero effect? Because Matt Strassler says anything that existed before inflation would be pulled apart and taken with it.

Everything gets pulled apart at inflation. Planets, matter etc.

The distance increases between objects.

If you and I stand face to face, and the inflation starts, the distance between us would increase to millions of lightyears in moments.

It's not a durability feat, because we're not experiencing inertia - space ITSELF is moving.

Bran, read that shit, what the ****.

I will admit, I was wrong on what the prevailing Big Bang Theory was. That's my mistake. The problem is, me being wrong doesn't actually change things up as you'd hope it would.

]So if space suddenly expands on someone at beyond lightspeed, it would have zero effect?

Yes, that's how this works. You don't get hit with anything, space itself is expanding around you. Right NOW the Universe is still expanding. Not at the initial rate, but it's a continuous process. Do you think that's a feat for you?

I'm not here to "win", so I'm not "hoping" to prove you wrong.

It's just that in this case, I studied physics, so the moment we start talking about it, I have more knowledge.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eh? You're twisting the whole scene. Surfer and Dawn were trapped in a place where there were no possibilities and no future.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hBXAbKb7avA/VUDizlq4G0I/AAAAAAALLlo/d1tVVlAex6U/s1600/p12_1%2Bcopy.jpg

That's why when Surfer took his ring from Dawn, he chose a new action and it created new pathways for them.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2M4m04xuKV8/VUDi-GsMcZI/AAAAAAALLog/zsvt5a2LzEM/s1600/p12_35.jpg

And where new pathways were created, Never Queen is present as she is the embodiment of the future.

This helped Surfer to create the space warp.

You're hilariously unable to read the scene. It wasn't about power. Surfer already had the power to create the space warp which is what he did in the end as well. He was living in the loop because he was afraid to take any new action and repeating the same thing again and again.

Yes, he created the space warp. That's what he did to transport the refugees.

It got nothing to do with power though.

And what does that has to do with power? He only created a space warp. The possibility was Surfer choosing a different action than before.

He brought down lightning to short circuit the parasite.

I'm talking about cannibal planet (who was devouring actual sun) rather than simple boasting from a random parasite with nothing to back it up.

Sun Eaters? Forget about that.

And? Making collector "nngh" is supposed to be such a big deal?

And Surfer was giving his life force too which is great enough for him to live for centuries.

And then out fought Surfer in that comic.

He was actually trying to save Earth and even apologized to Ben for doing it so quickly.

Nice excuse you got there.

You don't say.

Never change bran. Still twisting straight up scenes to suit your agenda.

It was entirely about power. Surfer did not have the power to break through the time loop and as such was trapped forever. There were no possibilities because Surfer did not have the power to break the loop.
It would be the same if Surfer were trapped in an unbreakable box without matter manip. He has no possibilities. Someone comes along and gives him matter manip and suddenly it opens up a possibility to the Never Queen. It doesn't mean she's helping him, it means the possibility exists for him to now accomplish it. And she outright says she's not helping him when she tells Surfer to will it into being.

It's right in the scene. Hell Surfer admits he couldn't even spare one atom of his being. Does this not sound like he needs all the power he can get?

"Create a new possibility! Will it into being!"

Surfer was creating that possibility while he was doing the feat. Before hand she just said they were revealed when he took the ring. Which had he not used his full self, he likely would have wounded up right back at the start. But he was whole and he used enough energy to break through.

But, explain what the ring did then besides creating a new possibility. Because Surfer sure seemed to think he'd need every part of him to do it.
How did he create a new possibility? A new choice? So what does this choice entail? What difference could this choice possibly make?

Cannibal Planet, even better. Anyway, the point is that the parasite materialized on top of Surfer already draining him. It claimed it drank suns. Not potentially, claimed.
To have an accurate comparison, you'd think you would have showed me Cannibal Planet trying to drain Superman and Superman overcoming and beating it in a battle. Not that I care, but it was a nice non sequitur nonetheless.

No, I'm just saying Surfer gave Howard enough power to Silver up and hurt Collector before hand. Hell, Howard also had an entire issue where he was using the power as well.

And that's my point. In that series Slott used life force as merely how long you live. Otherwise we'd have to assume Surfer got depowered the rest of the series.

"Outfought"
And he kept turning his back on Ben and trying to talk to the people to try and convince them to stop following Shalla.

People in glass houses

*first quote that creates a mess if I quote it*

Can you read?

"That's an interesting take on the explosion big bang. Matt Strassler defines it as:"

Because you tried to say if Dan Slotts interpretation were correct, it would have no velocity, nothing. Something which Slott didn't show. Since you're so keen on Matt, I figured I'd use what he described as the explosion big bang, like what the comic showed.

There had to be velocity and likely other things to follow the comic big bang. It wasn't an explosion of nothing. Even your own link defines it as pressure and velocity.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Everything gets pulled apart at inflation. Planets, matter etc.

The distance increases between objects.

If you and I stand face to face, and the inflation starts, the distance between us would increase to millions of lightyears in moments.

It's not a durability feat, because we're not experiencing inertia - space ITSELF is moving.

Bran, read that shit, what the ****.

Yes, that's how this works. You don't get hit with anything, space itself is expanding around you. Right NOW the Universe is still expanding. Not at the initial rate, but it's a continuous process. Do you think that's a feat for you?

I'm not here to "win", so I'm not "hoping" to prove you wrong.

It's just that in this case, I studied physics, so the moment we start talking about it, I have more knowledge.

But that's the problem, if Surfer is literally getting all of space dropped on him in an instant without getting dragged along it...
His models are if we assume things existed within the expanding state, and as such they'd never bump into each other. It doesn't account for something this space gets dropped onto.

I understand in his room diagram. The thing I'm having an issue with is what would happen if you were point blank to the inflation. To everything rushing out on you, and you NOT getting tossed out with it. How is this not durability? You are resisting incredible forces.

Well no, when you include a link that outright says what happened Dan Slotts Silver Surfer was not expansion, I don't think you did want to win. You're arguing something not pertaining to the feat at all, and instead something you want to argue to try and distract my attention away. Which is fine, I'm always up to learn something, but it's not what happened. Dan did pretty much everything Matt hates.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Since you're so keen on Matt, I figured I'd use what he described as the explosion big bang, like what the comic showed.

There had to be velocity and likely other things to follow the comic big bang. It wasn't an explosion of nothing. Even your own link defines it as pressure and velocity.

Bran, you don't follow.

The quote you just posted is explicitly in contrast to the big bang/universe expansion, which is nothing like an explosion.

You read the wrong paragraphs. The pargraph you read is LITERALLY what the Big Bang is not.

How could you possibly not acknowledge here that you read it wrong?

This is literally what it says, right below the figure associated with the text you quoted:

"Fig. 1: What the Big Bang was not: An explosion of a seed into a pre-existing space. The explosion is created by a process that generates tremendous heat and pressure inside the seed, which rushes outward as a ball of hot material exploding into the pre-existing space. The Big Bang is nothing like this."

What the f*ck are you doing?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
But that's the problem, if Surfer is literally getting all of space dropped on him in an instant without getting dragged along it...
His models are if we assume things existed within the expanding state, and as such they'd never bump into each other. It doesn't account for something this space gets dropped onto.

I understand in his room diagram. The thing I'm having an issue with is what would happen if you were point blank to the inflation. To everything rushing out on you, and you NOT getting tossed out with it. How is this not durability? You are resisting incredible forces.

Well no, when you include a link that outright says what happened Dan Slotts Silver Surfer was not expansion, I don't think you did want to win. You're arguing something not pertaining to the feat at all, and instead something you want to argue to try and distract my attention away. Which is fine, I'm always up to learn something, but it's not what happened. Dan did pretty much everything Matt hates.

Resisting what, Bran? The void is literally spreading out and engulfing Surfer in 360 degrees. Surfer didn't resist anything, he WANTED to be inside the newly formed Universe.

The Silver Surfer comic:
- explicitly says that there's a void expanding
- explicitly says that the void is comprised of potential matter and energy, that is only formed AFTER the inflation

In short, Surfer was inside an expanding nothingness, in which the physical Universe is eventually formed.

There's nothing for him to resist, since there's literally a Void, devoid of anything. He didn't even want to resist it. There is no ACTUAL matter/energy, no laws of physics, no atoms, no kinetic energy for him to resist in the first place.

Mod ruling is needed.

@Phil's reply to feat Re: Gl/Surfer feats:

You make some excellent points, but please don't suppose I'm unfamiliar with GL feats. I'm sketchy post-FP, but followed them for many years and have a good working knowledge of their capabilities.

Your comments on Kyle suggest that - like Surfer and others in that power stratosphere - he's absolutely top level. Whether or not his feats surpass Surfer's is perhaps a bit hard to determine, but both his power and versatility feats are in the same realm imo. This isn't a vs. fight, and my point was always that each of these people have numerous "deus ex" style feats that defy the normal logic of the tier. Kyle may edge out Surfer due to recent showings, but to imagine the gap is gigantic is - I think - nearsighted.

Your post also name drops a couple other GLs. Is it Surfer vs. the Corps? Or each individual lantern? Don't move the goalposts. Proving that one of the most established and powerful GLs ever is above Surfer (Kyle, again ignoring Hal) is quite a different matter from saying rookie GLs or every GL, etc.

Originally posted by carver9
Mod ruling is needed.

Surfer wins, and Spider-Man v. FL is valid.

I HAVE SPOKEN.

fdog

Originally posted by Digi
@Phil's reply to feat Re: Gl/Surfer feats:

You make some excellent points, but please don't suppose I'm unfamiliar with GL feats. I'm sketchy post-FP, but followed them for many years and have a good working knowledge of their capabilities.

Your comments on Kyle suggest that - like Surfer and others in that power stratosphere - he's absolutely top level. Whether or not his feats surpass Surfer's is perhaps a bit hard to determine, but both his power and versatility feats are in the same realm imo. This isn't a vs. fight, and my point was always that each of these people have numerous "deus ex" style feats that defy the normal logic of the tier. Kyle may edge out Surfer due to recent showings, but to imagine the gap is gigantic is - I think - nearsighted.

Your post also name drops a couple other GLs. Is it Surfer vs. the Corps? Or each individual lantern? Don't move the goalposts. Proving that one of the most established and powerful GLs ever is above Surfer (Kyle, again ignoring Hal) is quite a different matter from saying rookie GLs or every GL, etc.

The reason I posted different characters is that I wanted to go through the entire spectrum [heh] of GLs - noobs to veterans - to show that Surfer's highest feats are mid-to-high level feats for most GLs. Most of what I posted was even during the era when Kyle was a noob [such as containing the Supernova, blowing up planets etc.], or with CURRENT noob GLs such as Jessica [literally holding a planet together under a supernova's effects about to go off, tanking a black hole - all of this with less than 100% charge]. You don't need to be Hal to do them.
What you consider high shit, is something relatively common in GL showings. They make him look mundane. You might notice that I didn't ask you to match GL feats.

Hal is explicitly, overwhelmingly, much, MUCH more powerful than GLs, to the point that it's ridiculous. His willpower has been compared to the central power battery [i.e. the collection of willpower in the entire DCU], if you can imagine that. In fact, he is significantly above Kyle himself, as pointed out just this month, which has been obvious for the better part of the decade.

So we have Surfer being a mid-high GL in terms of feats, and Hal overwhelmingly above people who are comparable to SS. And then we have somebody like Zod, who comes and treats Hal like a kid who he wants to steal the lunch from.

So you might understand Leo's point of view that when Surfer, what is considered the cream of the crop in Marvel, is at best a mid-guy in DC, it shows that the Universes have shifted towards DC being on average more powerful.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
It was entirely about power. Surfer did not have the power to break through the time loop and as such was trapped forever. There were no possibilities because Surfer did not have the power to break the loop.

People in glass houses

Exactly Brandon.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I know you're familiar with many older GL feats, which is why I'm baffled as to why you hold him at the top of the food chain. It's, imo, remnants of an era when there was nobody around to contest it and, even IF we say that they were comparably the same, the last decade [which is CERTAINLY not recency bias, since that was your argument] of DC has straight up skyrocketed the likes of Hal by comparison.

The reason I posted different characters is that I wanted to go through the entire spectrum [heh] of GLs - noobs to veterans - to show that Surfer's highest feats are mid-to-high level feats for most GLs. Most of what I posted was even during the era when Kyle was a noob [such as containing the Supernova, blowing up planets etc.], or with CURRENT noob GLs such as Jessica [literally holding a planet together under a supernova's effects about to go off, tanking a black hole - all of this with less than 100% charge]. You don't need to be Hal to do them.
What you consider high shit, is something relatively common in GL showings. They make him look mundane. You might notice that I didn't ask you to match GL feats.

Hal is explicitly, overwhelmingly, much, MUCH more powerful than GLs, to the point that it's ridiculous. His willpower has been compared to the central power battery [i.e. the collection of willpower in the entire DCU], if you can imagine that. In fact, he is significantly above Kyle himself, as pointed out just this month, which has been obvious for the better part of the decade.

So we have Surfer being a mid-high GL in terms of feats, and Hal overwhelmingly above people who are comparable to SS. And then we have somebody like Zod, who comes and treats Hal like a kid who he wants to steal the lunch from.

So you might understand Leo's point of view that when Surfer, what is considered the cream of the crop in Marvel, is at best a mid-guy in DC, it shows that the Universes have shifted towards DC being on average more powerful.

Tom Kalmaku recreates Oa casually when he got the GL ring for the first time from GL legacy.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135547-1576345812-image.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135548-9961547604-image.jpg
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https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135550-8505900858-image.jpg

Kyle Rayner recreates an entire planet around Traitor which he had destroyed. Legends of DC universe 38.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135541-1149458672-legen.jpg

Kyle even creates an entire world out of nothing.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135534-8499524966-Jp758.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135535-4497333365-FLlAR.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135536-9172517041-7khbh.jpg

Or Sinestro holding Korugar together when Volthoom tried to destroy it. It was destroyed when Volthoom rewind time and made it so that Sinestro didn't save it.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6136456-6217174646-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6136457-3518535960-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6136458-8771809614-RCO01.jpg

While Surfer almost died trying to repair Earth's crust only.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133787-7779591343-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133788-2967440161-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133789-2141996352-RCO01.jpg
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https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133790-2775153749-RCO02.jpg
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https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133792-8491503009-RCO02.jpg

GLs can match almost any feat Surfer has done. Surfer can't do that to GLs.

Holy...SHIT.

Bran, you don't follow.

The quote you just posted is explicitly in contrast to the big bang/universe expansion, which is nothing like an explosion.

You read the wrong paragraphs. The pargraph you read is LITERALLY what the Big Bang is not.

How could you possibly not acknowledge here that you read it wrong?

This is literally what it says, right below the figure associated with the text you quoted:

"Fig. 1: What the Big Bang was not: An explosion of a seed into a pre-existing space. The explosion is created by a process that generates tremendous heat and pressure inside the seed, which rushes outward as a ball of hot material exploding into the pre-existing space. The Big Bang is nothing like this."

What the f*ck are you doing?

Come on man, it's not that hard to follow.

If we go purely by what Slott showed in fiction (hey, we're back there!), then Surfer was at the center of void expanding with potential matter/energy. To take it further, there are no laws of physics there, there is no such thing as space/time formed in the first place, kinetic energy, atoms, distance, velocity, nothing etc. It's a literal void, with no concept that applies in the normal Universe. There is no frame of reference to even prove it has anything to do with durability.He got engulfed by literally nothing.

What Slott showed in fiction was literally exactly what Matt has an issue with. That is the trail. I said that in my post multiple times:

A link that says what Slott wrote is clearly going against the expansion theory at almost every turn. A link that says the expansion theory is something most media doesn't present.

It doesn't matter what it's portrayed as because either way is bad. But it was clearly the way Marvel has portrayed them at every turn. Ie, something you don't want to be around. I trust I don't have to show every big bang ever showed on panel?

In other words, it wasn't nothing. The "nothing" from that series was them trying to time travel past the big bang. And Dan Slott thought there was velocity when he had the halves sent hurtling to the opposite ends of the universe

And what exactly does Matt hate about the way the media portrays it?
"So if people tells you that the universe started in such and such a way, perhaps “with a singularity” or “with a quantum fluctuation out of nothing” or “in the Big Crunch (i.e. the collapse) of a previous phase of the universe”, remember that they’re telling you about the red zone. They’re neglecting to tell you that what they’re saying is pure theory, with neither an experiment to back it up nor a clear theoretical reason to believe their suggestion is unique and preferable over someone else’s alternative."

Which is why it's relevant to display what exactly Matt has an issue with with the big bang. Because it's exactly how Dan Slutts portrayed it as. And you had previously said Dan portrayed it as "nothing". Well no, he didn't. He portrayed it as an explosion with all potential matter and energy cooped up from the destruction of a previous reality, that hurtled two halves to the end of the universe due to a "crash".
Which is what Matt hates.

Anyway, here is the only information on expansion I could find in comics. Needless to say, it's a little different
https://imgur.com/a/zfkRX

And Slott himself never went that direction. And he said unending void. Which implies no matter where Surfer went, there was a void. Which makes sense since there was nothing there initially. It doesn't mean expansion. It means there was nothing there until there was.
Not only that but things formed fairly quickly since Surfer had 64 Autumns as Nor Ville, and he says he was disguised as him for the last half century, which seems to imply no real time passed between the big bang and Eternity forming.
https://imgur.com/a/zfkRX

Which again, shows Slott was doing his own thing. Which is what Marvel was doing. Which is why there was an explosion. Which is why so many people get their powers from the big bang event

You know how Marvel works. And I'm pretty sure you doubt Slott went to the expansion theory. Nor do I think even if he used the words expansion indicate that (for reasons stated). Hell, even old Marvel depictions use the word expansion.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/66762/1349924-omni.jpg

And I think it likely Slott used something like this. The explosion, the almost rapid structure of planets, the fact that the halves will come together again and destroy the universe. Plus the two halves were sent hurtling to the ends of the universe. Not expanded out there, hurtling. And they came rushing back. Etc. The fact that Matt Strassler almost defined what Slott depicted as something he doesn't find tasteful.

Slott didn't even come close to depicting just an inflating universe. The guy had it as an explosion 2 times, and then another time Surfer didn't want to run into the big bang... which is really just an expansion that would do nothing? And the only Marvel comic I could find (not saying there's not more), comes from a smarter guy than Slott in Fraction, who still depicted it as as devastating force.

Resisting what, Bran? The void is literally spreading out and engulfing Surfer in 360 degrees. Surfer didn't resist anything, he WANTED to be inside the newly formed Universe.

The Silver Surfer comic:
- explicitly says that there's a void expanding
- explicitly says that the void is comprised of potential matter and energy, that is only formed AFTER the inflation

In short, Surfer was inside an expanding nothingness, in which the physical Universe is eventually formed.

There's nothing for him to resist, since there's literally a Void, devoid of anything. He didn't even want to resist it. There is no ACTUAL matter/energy, no laws of physics, no atoms, no kinetic energy for him to resist in the first place.

I'm saying had the universe expanded upon him, he was supposed to be at the least flung quite a ways a way, no? At least that's what everything says. I realize he wanted to be there, but he was never forced anywhere when it collapsed right on top of him.

I'd be curious as to what Matt's answer would be if you asked him what would happen to a car if it was point blank to the inflation period.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, repeating yourself isn't going to prove anything.

I just showed you what's what in that comic. But do continue to show us how it was all about power and how Surfer gained power from his ring which was just a part of his body and no power loss was ever stated in giving the ring to Dawn.

Yes, and he only creates a space warp and wasn't even aware that there was any time loop to begin with.

Which he was already doing but never succeeded because he was repeating the same actions over and over.

Do you even know what was going on in the comic or just thought that breaking an infinite time loop sounded better?

The ring wasn't shown to be a power loss for Surfer. Hell he would've to absorb his board too if that was the idea that it was somehow weakening him.

You're literally not seeing what was going on in the comic.

facepalm

Surfer did only what he was doing from the start. He was creating a space warp but as it was set, he was repeating it again and again. When he took the ring, the possibility was there again and he successfully made it out of the loop.

It was due to his actions, not some random power loss by the ring.

It was a different set of action than predefined in the loop, it created a new set of probabilities which later showed that Surfer could successfully create a space warp.

How does a space warp even breaks a time loop anyway?

Yeah, claiming is believing last I checked.

Drinking suns doesn't means draining them completely BTW.

So let me guess, you take a random parasite claiming it drinks suns and that's somehow absolute truth. Oh and Cannibal planet devouring sun isn't the same or Superman who is himself a solar battery beating it from inside means that the planet didn't fight back.

Never change Brandon.

And? Should we put Howard on herald level too because it manages to hurt Collector.

*Gasp*

He powered down and let the parasites drain his zenn lavian life force drain. It has nothing to do with his power cosmic.

But eh, you can always say that Warrior Zero somehow got his years drained because that's what powers engines.

Straight up making things now, eh?

Yes, outfought. Ben was able to save Alicia when Surfer was face down.

But duh, Surfer was only fighting lightly because he was in no hurry to save earth and who cares if he said he had to end the fight quickly.

Exactly Brandon.

Explain what possibility Surfer actually created. And not "he created a possibility". Explain what the possibility was, and how it makes sense. Explain how Never Queen was cheering for Surfer to will it to happen.

Yes something different happened, but that doesn't mean Surfer could have slapped Dawn and he would have broken the time loop. Even after this different scenario, Never Queen still is telling Surfer to will the possibility into being. He had to do it. He had to make the possibility happen.

I don't know man, it's right there. Your logic is that if anything different could have happened, he would have broken it. Never Queen outright says he has to be the one who turns the page on his life:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wncy6cbTP98/VoSjhAJQDWI/AAAAAAAAOkQ/9ZkqfpGXplI/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg

Yet you don't think Surfer being whole had anything to do with it, and think it was entirely the possibility existing that caused it? Surfer already had the ring inside himself, it made no sense for Never Queen to continue cheering him on if all that was needed was a change.

If we ignore the Never Queen who did nothing to help Surfer, and assume she doesn't exist. What does Surfer getting the ring, not being able to spare an ounce of himself, and having to become whole imply? Especially when he breaks out of a timeloop after becoming "whole"?

Well, the planet didn't even know Superman was there is the big issue there. Why are you even trying to compare the two? Yes it was eating a sun. No it wasn't aware that Superman was there until its brain was being frozen.
The Surfer parasite claimed it drinks suns and was already draining Surfer on its first appearance. That is a fact. I'm not saying it's absolute, I'm saying that Superman freezing a brain doesn't mean that the parasite Surfer was getting drained by didn't happen. That's such a non sequitur
All we know is that it claimed it drank suns. Something being shown eating a sun is obviously better, but it doesn't mean the thing didn't say that, nor does it mean it is a lie. I don't know what you want me to say here. I'm sure even Philosophía would be confused as to the inclusion here.

...

I'm saying Surfer shared with Howard enough power to hurt Collector and fight before hand. That is it. Which for someone who likes to claim weakened at every turn, you sure don't put stock in when Surfer shares power.

Because Dan was using life force to mean years off your life. It's right there on panel. Maybe Warrior Zero was weakened, but from the previous definition Slott used, we would assume his life was shortened.

Ben outfought Surfer because he jumped into the blast from Shalla?

Because when Surfer previously one punches Thing, and in the next fight he is having conversations with everyone who walks by, it seems weird.