Originally posted by abhilegendHoly shit they drew him really Asian 😂
Even if we want to take old scans, GLs leave Surfer in dust.Tom Kalmaku recreates Oa casually when he got the GL ring for the first time from GL legacy.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135547-1576345812-image.jpg
Come on man, it's not that hard to follow.
That's what I thought, too.
Look, I'm bored already. You're obviously not going to admit you were wrong here overall, because you think you're arguing with somebody else, so you can't give ground. I mean, it's ok to admit this isn't a durability feat, even if your initial position was that it is. I'm willing to discuss his other feats, since those really ARE discussable(?). But this is so obviously not a tanking feat, that it's crazy we're having this discussion.
The only reason we got into the 'explosion' vs 'expansion' debate is because you said that the big bang is an explosion, not an expansion, and based it on the real-world scientific definition Slott explicitly referenced, which you wrongfully assumed meant actual explosion. I showed you that you were wrong, you admitted it was wrong, and when you realized that train of thought accidentally proved my point that it's an expansion, you started to do a complete 180 and argue the reverse, that Dan Slott wasn't actually basing it on science. You literally shot yourself in the foot by showing it's an expansion, and then you tried to cover the hole with bullshit, by showing disagreement between Slot and science, when your WHOLE ARGUMENT was that Slott based it on science in order to prove that it was an "explosion".
It's a bitch move. But I would have let it slide.
Then you showed me you can't read.
You said, and I quote:
That's an interesting take on the explosion big bang. Matt Strassler defines it as:
Here was another point where you should have admitted you misread it, and admit you were wrong, then move on.
We switch on back to fiction, when you realized that train of arguments led to proving my point.
I point out that the comic, in specific terms, it shows the big-bang as a void expanding. That it only has potential matter/energy, but is otherwise completely empty. That there's nothing for Surfer to be hit with, resist, or tank. That there was no actual, physical energy/matter, laws of physics, atoms or anything to get hit with. That it's just empty space around him, in which he explicitly stands, until matter/energy and Eternity starts to form.
We explicitly see Surfer explicitly saying that he is standing in an unending void:
"I found myself alone in an unending void"
We see Surfer explicitly alone in the void right after,when he shoots off Dawn's energy:
The story reveals EXPLICITLY that was the very FIRST energy in the Universe:
Jesus Christ man.
You're arguing that Surfer's reaction at the big bang amounting to nothing by being hit by the void expanding into nothing, is somehow something, because you don't care.
I mean, can you even see my position on how absurd it is that you're even arguing this as a durability feat? When the feat explicitly shows a literal void expanding from the box to fill up non-existent space/time? When it's stated that there's no matter/energy and only potential one that will form? When it's literally stated that there's a Void, right after the big bang expansion, with Surfer literally standing there alone? With it being explicitly stated that Surfer's blast is the first thing in the Universe?
This isn't even me making an interpretation, it's right there on the page. The box explicitly only has potential energy/matter. Box is split. Void is released and surrounds Surfer. Matter/energy/Eternity then starts to form.
I think that you see, at this point, that you're wrong, but you're just arguing for the sake of it.
I feel like when I argued with abhi in another thread. The 'not giving an inch' attitude I really dislike, more than anything on this forum.
I...can't spend any more time on this. Sorry. It's so obvious, that I feel like I'm wasting my time.
i've...lost track of this argument.
phil, are you suggesting that if you stood next to a big bang it would NOT be a durability feat...? ie--anyone could withstand a true universal genesis event? or is it just THIS depiction of a big bang in particular?
maybe i'll try and read the stuff over the weekend.
Originally posted by leonidasI'll write to you on fb if you don't want to read the discussion, since I'm tired of posting, lol.
i've...lost track of this argument.phil, are you suggesting that if you stood next to a big bang it would NOT be a durability feat...? ie--anyone could withstand a true universal genesis event? or is it just THIS depiction of a big bang in particular?
maybe i'll try and read the stuff over the weekend.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Even if we want to take old scans, GLs leave Surfer in dust.Tom Kalmaku recreates Oa casually when he got the GL ring for the first time from GL legacy.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135547-1576345812-image.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135548-9961547604-image.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135549-7265323782-image.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135550-8505900858-image.jpgKyle Rayner recreates an entire planet around Traitor which he had destroyed. Legends of DC universe 38.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135541-1149458672-legen.jpg
Kyle even creates an entire world out of nothing.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135534-8499524966-Jp758.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135535-4497333365-FLlAR.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6135536-9172517041-7khbh.jpgOr Sinestro holding Korugar together when Volthoom tried to destroy it. It was destroyed when Volthoom rewind time and made it so that Sinestro didn't save it.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6136456-6217174646-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6136457-3518535960-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6136458-8771809614-RCO01.jpgWhile Surfer almost died trying to repair Earth's crust only.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133787-7779591343-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133788-2967440161-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133789-2141996352-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133790-2775153749-RCO02.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133790-2775153749-RCO02.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133791-6811837048-RCO02.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6133792-8491503009-RCO02.jpgGLs can match almost any feat Surfer has done. Surfer can't do that to GLs.
He doesn’t just repair the crust. And he powers the Impericon, which is solar system sized.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f2waPYpLzy4/U6L_7spycaI/AAAAAAADv_U/6FuSZBGmFvo/s1600/-007+copy.jpg
Originally posted by Philosophía"Can't give ground"
That's what I thought, too.Look, I'm bored already. You're obviously not going to admit you were wrong here overall, because you think you're arguing with somebody else, so you can't give ground. I mean, it's ok to admit this isn't a durability feat, even if your initial position was that it is. I'm willing to discuss his other feats, since those really ARE discussable(?). But this is so obviously not a tanking feat, that it's crazy we're having this discussion.
The only reason we got into the 'explosion' vs 'expansion' debate is because you said that the big bang is an explosion, not an expansion, and based it on the real-world scientific definition Slott explicitly referenced, which you wrongfully assumed meant actual explosion. I showed you that you were wrong, you admitted it was wrong, and when you realized that train of thought accidentally proved my point that it's an expansion, you started to do a complete 180 and argue the reverse, that Dan Slott wasn't actually basing it on science. You literally shot yourself in the foot by showing it's an expansion, and then you tried to cover the hole with bullshit, by showing disagreement between Slot and science, when your WHOLE ARGUMENT was that Slott based it on science in order to prove that it was an "explosion".
It's a bitch move. But I would have let it slide.
Then you showed me you can't read.
You said, and I quote:
...and you posted a quote that is, literally, him using an example of what the Big Bang IS NOT. There's actual illustrations showing the difference. There are actual EXPLANATIONS to the illustrations that say, in no uncertain terms:
[b]the Big Bang is nothing like this.Here was another point where you should have admitted you misread it, and admit you were wrong, then move on.
We switch on back to fiction, when you realized that train of arguments led to proving my point.
I point out that the comic, in specific terms, it shows the big-bang as a void expanding. That it only has potential matter/energy, but is otherwise completely empty. That there's nothing for Surfer to be hit with, resist, or tank. That there was no actual, physical energy/matter, laws of physics, atoms or anything to get hit with. That it's just empty space around him, in which he explicitly stands, until matter/energy and Eternity starts to form.
We explicitly see Surfer explicitly saying that he is standing in an unending void:
"I found myself alone in an unending void"
We see Surfer explicitly alone in the void right after,when he shoots off Dawn's energy:
The story reveals EXPLICITLY that was the very FIRST energy in the Universe:
Jesus Christ man.
You're arguing that Surfer's reaction at the big bang amounting to nothing by being hit by the void expanding into nothing, is somehow something, because you don't care.
I mean, can you even see my position on how absurd it is that you're even arguing this as a durability feat? When the feat explicitly shows a literal void expanding from the box to fill up non-existent space/time? When it's stated that there's no matter/energy and only potential one that will form? When it's literally stated that there's a Void, right after the big bang expansion, with Surfer literally standing there alone? With it being explicitly stated that Surfer's blast is the first thing in the Universe?
This isn't even me making an interpretation, it's right there on the page. The box explicitly only has potential energy/matter. Box is split. Void is released and surrounds Surfer. Matter/energy/Eternity then starts to form.
I think that you see, at this point, that you're wrong, but you're just arguing for the sake of it.
I feel like when I argued with abhi in another thread. The 'not giving an inch' attitude I really dislike, more than anything on this forum.
I...can't spend any more time on this. Sorry. It's so obvious, that I feel like I'm wasting my time. [/B]
I've literally admitted I was wrong on the big bang expansion. I've changed my entire debating style to suit your needs. I am not fully explaining myself, and that is something that would have never lead to this quandary we're in now.
The problem is, I have explained myself enough for you to stop getting confused here.
But first, my whole argument didn't hinge on Slott saying real world scientists said it was the big bang. That was to back me up. My entire argument was based on the fact that it's a huge ****ing explosion depicted 2 times on panel. All that means is that Slott was wrong, and still assumed (like I) that the big bang was a big bang. If Slott was up to date on the expansion theory, we wouldn't be talking about half of this. I'm sure you can agree here.
I said that line 3 posts in while completely talking about the explosion in every post. That'd be like me saying that you previously thought everything missed Surfer like 2 guns on a carpet, but now you think it just expanded upon him.
Now about what you quoted. Look back on that. I ****ing bolded it when I had to do this explaining shit the first time. Notice what I bolded.
"That's an interesting take on the explosion big bang. Matt Strassler defines it as:"
Like come on. Do you think me that retarded that I'd look at almost every article on Matt Strassler's site and then still use the prior theory on the big bang theory to try and explain expansion? The first thing I quoted when you posted that link outright stated that the media depicts them as explosions. This is a straw man of the highest order. That's downright insulting. Not as insulting as the Abhi comparison. **** off.
To reiterate, what I believe Slott did, and what I believe he depicted was an explosion big bang. Which is why I said it was an interesting take on it. And I used the prior definition he used to explain that it had a lot of velocity if that's what it was. It's really not that hard to follow. I even was saying Slott was not using expansion in the post this confusion came from. Please stop. You misread it, I've admitted my mistakes, and this wasn't one of them. You're making a big conniption about something that didn't happen.
Now we'll get back to the scans.
The issue is, him being in a void does not prove it wasn't an explosive big bang. It just means that things expanded after the fact. Like what happened here:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/66762/1349924-omni.jpg
And no, the scan does not say it was the first energy in the universe. It says the first light, which causes a semantics argument. However, Surfer expanded on it to show what he meant, and that is that everyone who saw the break of day would know it as Dawn.
And he's not wrong either (apparently) it became the first light in the universe. Which means Dawn's energy became light before any of the suns came in fruition. It was not the first light in creation, IT BECAME it. Which means it FORMED before almost everything else. And it didn't say it was the first energy (again, semantics), it said it became the first light, and he was talking about literal sunlight. And him firing off an energy blast that became the first light while still being in the void shows that there was energy around. It just wasn't formed yet. I never argued that there wouldn't be a void state, or that it couldn't be depicted. Even in my prior assertion of the big bang, I was under the assumption that everything had to form. Even in an old ass depiction it showed a huge void with only gasses with the explosive big bang. The void changes nothing. There just wasn't anything visible formed in the very short time it took for everything to take shape. And the fact that it took possible minutes for everything to start forming doesn't bode well for there being no "energy" in the universe. Even if it took a decade to a century to form, which it didn't because Surfer still likened it to half a century that he was Nor Ville, that is still an incredibly fast time for their to be energy present. In the expansion debate, atoms are supposed to form after like 380000 years after the hot big bang, which is a ways away from inflation.
Dan was playing fast and loose with his own interpretation to say the least. And I think there's enough things to say he was not following the expansion theory.
But what was stated doesn't supersede him depicting an explosion twice, and Surfer not wanting to run into a big bang with Dawn. Even if what you said had full explanations and were absolutely irrefutable, HE STILL SHOWED IT AS AN EXPLOSION. TWICE. That's pretty hard to get passed tbh.
And no, I don't think I'm wrong. I wouldn't even think I'm wrong if Dan Slott came out and said exactly what you think it is. I wouldn't use it mind you or argue against it, but it would be an incredibly shitty display of expansion. It would be depicted as the exact opposite of what they meant to depict it as, and that's a very poor representation. I'm sure even you can admit this.
Also, you say there were no physics, no nothings, yet ignore the fact that Galactus' ship crashed right into the egg to send them hurtling along the universe. Along with full kirby dots of energy explosion in the first view. And the second was some sort of energy field blasting apart.
--------
However, if you don't want to debate this, one thing I will admit I absolutely can't get my head around is how getting a universe expanded on you would not be durability. It's absolutely fascinating to me. If you would discuss this with me assuming SS is a car with no callbacks to the comic besides it being point blank, I would appreciate that.
Assume both it moves with expansion, and it stays in one place.
Now I'm unable to quote Brandon too.
Exactly Brandon.
You make a good point. Repeating things is useless to you. So we'll go another direction.
Explain what possibility Surfer actually created. And not "he created a possibility". Explain what the possibility was, and how it makes sense. Explain how Never Queen was cheering for Surfer to will it to happen.
Yes something different happened, but that doesn't mean Surfer could have slapped Dawn and he would have broken the time loop. Even after this different scenario, Never Queen still is telling Surfer to will the possibility into being. He had to do it. He had to make the possibility happen.
That's what Slott wrote. Whine to him if you want.
But tell me again how creating a space warp breaks a time loop which Surfer wasn't even aware about?
I don't know man, it's right there. Your logic is that if anything different could have happened, he would have broken it. Never Queen outright says he has to be the one who turns the page on his life:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wncy6cbTP...Ic42/RCO013.jpg
And you thought "Ooh, this is totally gotta do with power".
Right Brandon.
Yet you don't think Surfer being whole had anything to do with it, and think it was entirely the possibility existing that caused it? Surfer already had the ring inside himself, it made no sense for Never Queen to continue cheering him on if all that was needed was a change.
If we ignore the Never Queen who did nothing to help Surfer, and assume she doesn't exist. What does Surfer getting the ring, not being able to spare an ounce of himself, and having to become whole imply? Especially when he breaks out of a timeloop after becoming "whole"?
I already explained it to you. It was all about taking a different action.
But start first with how a space warp breaks a time loop.
Well, the planet didn't even know Superman was there is the big issue there. Why are you even trying to compare the two? Yes it was eating a sun. No it wasn't aware that Superman was there until its brain was being frozen.
Are you sure about that?
It was eating the sun but Superman who is a solar battery didn't got drained? Guess who has a better energy draining resistance than Surfer?
The Surfer parasite claimed it drinks suns and was already draining Surfer on its first appearance. That is a fact. I'm not saying it's absolute, I'm saying that Superman freezing a brain doesn't mean that the parasite Surfer was getting drained by didn't happen. That's such a non sequitur
No, it draining Surfer is a fact. It draining suns isn't.
I just gave you a better feat from Superman randomly than your special feat from Surfer.
All we know is that it claimed it drank suns. Something being shown eating a sun is obviously better, but it doesn't mean the thing didn't say that, nor does it mean it is a lie. I don't know what you want me to say here. I'm sure even Philosophía would be confused as to the inclusion here.
It doesn't means shit if it's not shown. Characters say stupid shit all the time.
But hey, it totally saves Surfer from getting drained like a *****. Again.
...
I'm saying Surfer shared with Howard enough power to hurt Collector and fight before hand. That is it. Which for someone who likes to claim weakened at every turn, you sure don't put stock in when Surfer shares power.
Surfer is so powerful, isn't he? He must've defeated Collector when he could just share his power and hurt collector, right?
Oh wait..
Because Dan was using life force to mean years off your life. It's right there on panel. Maybe Warrior Zero was weakened, but from the previous definition Slott used, we would assume his life was shortened.
And Warrior Zero was only something when he was channeling the gravity of a planet and then he overpowered Surfer.
Here he wasn't. But guess Surfer is super duper powerful for oneshotting Warrior Zero.
Ben outfought Surfer because he jumped into the blast from Shalla?
And Surfer was on the ground, eating dirt.
Because when Surfer previously one punches Thing, and in the next fight he is having conversations with everyone who walks by, it seems weird.
It shows Ben was disoriented the first time.
But hey, Surfer saying he wants to stop the fight quickly obviously means he wasn't trying to fight Ben.
Obviously.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Holy shit they drew him really Asian 😂
Originally posted by TheHulkster
He doesn’t just repair the crust. And he powers the Impericon, which is solar system sized.http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f2waPYpLzy4/U6L_7spycaI/AAAAAAADv_U/6FuSZBGmFvo/s1600/-007+copy.jpg
And yes, he only repaired the crust.
Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm
He powered the planet. He did not stop the planet from crumbling apart while it was already crumbling.And yes, he only repaired the crust.
He provides the power to hold the solar system sized planet together until it is evacuated.
He merges with the planet and repairs it. He doesn’t almost die. When merged with the planet, he experiences the planet’s dying before he repairs it/him.
You’re failing at your lowballing.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
He provides the power to hold the solar system sized planet together until it is evacuated.He merges with the planet and repairs it. He doesn’t almost die. When merged with the planet, he experiences the planet’s dying before he repairs it/him.
You’re failing at your lowballing.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hriwka6mR7I/VoSkzxtgkVI/AAAAAAAAO3M/iTOskfLAEKM/s1600-Ic42/RCO012.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RWOAgurh9Ls/VoSk0HhXhtI/AAAAAAAAO3M/0h-N8cblejY/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HQJ5Dy1xbkg/VoSk0VcGIRI/AAAAAAAAO3M/nOlla1zdSz0/s1600-Ic42/RCO014.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MBQkD-iWV_g/VoSk1YD_X8I/AAAAAAAAO3M/IfMUDlFwDw8/s1600-Ic42/RCO018.jpg
Also while the planet was very big, it wasn't solar system level.
The planet (Earth) was dying because it's crust was broken. Nothing more. Even year one Hal Jordan has repaired more extensive damage to Earth.
