Captain America vs Superman

Originally posted by xJLxKing
it's not basic

It's why Superman can easily beat someone like Lor who despite growing up with his power can't' utilize them correctly

What dont you get?

Still not sure how that mastery translates to being able to overcome a range advantage, lol.

Look. You and I are both human level in stats. Same strength, speed, durability, abilities.

You have a shield, I can freeze you in a block of ice/use HV.

Sure you could use the shield against the HV, until I switched to a wide beam like I did against the Doomsday clones. Or just froze you instantly, like I did against WW.

You can't dodge it, because you're explicitly as fast as I am - no faster. Unless you can read my mind, you're not moving before I attack.....

NOT originally posted by DarkSaint85
Still not sure how that mastery translates to being able to overcome a range advantage, lol.

Look. I am Spider-Man level in stats. GREATER strength, speed, durability, abilities than you.

You have a shield, I can web you in steel strong silk ropes.

Sure you could use the shield against the webbing, until I switched to a wide net like I do against run-of-the-mill burglars . Or just snared you instantly, like I did against Kingpin.

You can't dodge it, because you're explicitly slower than I am.
Also, I can all but read your mind, because I've got Spider-Sense to warn me when you're about to attack.....

Source: Amazing Spider-Man #534
Circa: September 2006

Not sure what relevance that has. Spiderman doesn't have HV or Freeze Breath, and nor does Cap have had the luxury of studying him, his every move.

I mean, very telling that you stopped your scans where you did (or did I mean to type scaM???)

Post the very next page. Where Spiderman explicitly does something that Cap has NOT studied (even during the course of said fight).

You can see how Spiderman plays with Cap. Uses his webs to create am opening for Cap to jump into, then exploits it.

So in this thread, Cap, who has never studied Kryptonians fighting, will...get hit.

I guess that's the point you're trying to make? That Superman wins?

I await with bated breath.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except he has never shown the ability to master top tier powers in such a short time.

Has he shown failing to do so?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Has he shown failing to do so?

Originally posted by carver9
Superman isn't Surfer. Cap will have flight, speed and strength. What is complex about this, lol. You bringing up top tier power doesn't change the fact that the ability he is mastering is basic.

Exactly. Practically the same day he receives his powers, Nefaria appears quite competent and that includes heat vision. Jane Thor wields Thor's power at least as well as he does from the start. Same for Masterson. He is just less skilled than Thor in fighting.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would anyone need to prove a negative.

Didn't ask you for proof of anything. I asked a fact based question.

Plus, the original assertion is that Cap would not be adjusted to rhw power. You have to provide proof of that. You said that he has never done so. My response is that he has never been shown failing to do so. That's a legitimate retort.

How will Supes perform freeze breath with a crushed trachea?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Has he shown failing to do so?

I don’t have to prove that

You have to prove that CA despite never weilding that kind of power have use it correctly and efficiently. We have seen characters that Lor who grew up with powers not use it correctly

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Didn't ask you for proof of anything. I asked a fact based question.

Am I supposed to post every Cap comic ever to prove that?

If you claim Cap not ever having that power as evidence of not being able to use it well, then that is a legitimate response. As for Lor, I can counter with Jane Thor or Nefaria.

We can counter with Morg or any other herald. They are as skilled with the PC when they first get it as they are later on. Monica Rambeau wields GL energy as well as any GL.

Blasting someone with GL energy is totally using GL power at its best.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I said he has never shown that he can get proficient with top tier power.

Am I supposed to post every Cap comic ever to prove that?

You have to show where he is unable to be proficient, otherwise your statement is meaningless. There is no firsthand proof either way.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Still not sure how that mastery translates to being able to overcome a range advantage, lol.

Look. You and I are both human level in stats. Same strength, speed, durability, abilities.

You have a shield, I can freeze you in a block of ice/use HV.

Sure you could use the shield against the HV, until I switched to a wide beam like I did against the Doomsday clones. Or just froze you instantly, like I did against WW.

You can't dodge it, because you're explicitly as fast as I am - no faster. Unless you can read my mind, you're not moving before I attack.....

They wouldn't necessarily have the same speed since Cap will have the below advantage:

I thought all stats were equal, no?

Which includes reflexes. Unless you're stacking stats, in which case Cap is also a tiiiny bit stronger than Supes etc.

Which sounds silly, lol.

I think that what Diana refers to are instincts and muscle memory developed through training which is really what skill is all about. Not literal speed which is what she refers to as "raw speed". Physical speed capabilities have been equalled as well as strength and durability.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
it's not basic

It's why Superman can easily beat someone like Lor who despite growing up with his power can't' utilize them correctly

What dont you get?

That his power is basic. It's speed, strength, and flight. It's like saying Captain Marvel or Wonder man powers are complex. Cap is already pretty quick and strong. Now he just need to familiarize himself with a higher tier of power that he already have and due to his intellect, he should be able to achieve this, easily. Lol... he was capable of pushing a freaking Universe back with the gauntlet while being in possession of the gauntlet for some minutes.

Originally posted by carver9
That his power is basic. It's speed, strength, and flight. It's like saying Captain Marvel or Wonder man powers are complex. Cap is already pretty quick and strong. Now he just need to familiarize himself with a higher tier of power that he already have and due to his intellect, he should be able to achieve this, easily. Lol... he was capable of pushing a freaking Universe back with the gauntlet while being in possession of the gauntlet for some minutes.

Look at Ivy who took control of Superman but lacks basic experience. This isn’t someone increasing their strength by a multiple of 10