Originally posted by TheHulkster
What is different about the Jane who defeats Mangog and the Jane who is manhandled by Gladiator?
They're the same, there's no difference.
Which makes my point all the stronger. Power scaling off battles isn't the best gauge. Because you now have Gladiator being more of a challenge than Mangog, who was more of a challenge than the Phoenix Force, who Gladiator fears....
Originally posted by Sin I AM
@Saint so where do you place Jane?
Same as where Odinson was. The top tier of Marvel's characters. She's had some nice feats and yeah, Mjolnir flies and does things for her it never did for Odinson - but neither has she done a Godblast, or redirected and amped blasts at 100x or whatever. So overall, roughly the same. Her beating of Odin was a good feat, but there's something strange there, especially with his failure to lift the hammer.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So IYO, the Jane that defeated Mangog (who was said to be more powerful than the Phoenix force) is written to be the exact same power level as the Jane that the Hulk defeated just by flexing his muscles?And it's very interesting you say that we don't separate characters. Very interesting indeed.
Didn't you say the same about Lobo? That he doesn't do well outside of his own titles?
And didn't you say the same about GLs?
It's the same Jane is what I am saying. I'm not going to discredit Wolverine doing amazing against Hulk because it didn't happen in a Hulk book. We've never debated like this before and I'm not starting it now. Hulk worked JANE THOR. Kind of like you posting Superman (possessed by Max Lord) fighting the JLA as evidence not saying anything about the team being hindered due to them being on a team. Ya know, you accepted it.
What did I say about Lobo? Cant remember.
GLs just suck, period. I will always say that no matter which book they are in, high end bricks would crush them. It is what it is.
Originally posted by carver9
It's the same Jane is what I am saying. I'm not going to discredit Wolverine doing amazing against Hulk because it didn't happen in a Hulk book. We've never debated like this before and I'm not starting it now. Hulk worked JANE THOR. Kind of like you posting Superman (possessed by Max Lord) fighting the JLA as evidence not saying anything about the team being hindered due to them being on a team. Ya know, you accepted it.What did I say about Lobo? Cant remember.
GLs just suck, period. I will always say that no matter which book they are in, high end bricks would crush them. It is what it is.
It's the exact same thing.
You seem to have this idea that Lanterns have some weird power which doesn't work against bricks. Based on their interactions.
But you've got the logic all wrong. It's the same Lantern, right?
Same way you seem to split combat and travel speed. It's all speed.
We always debate like this, because you always split things up when it suits you. Lanterns are weak against bricks.... therefore it is what it is.
If you had in a forum fight, Lantern vs a brick and then a second fight with a non brick, for some reason you automatically say the Lanterns shields/strength/speed whatever goes down. Even if it is the exact same Lantern. Why?
Same character, right? Same guy (Hal. Or Guy, if you want to keep it simple).
You seem to accept that pretty quickly.
You split Toon Force Lobo apart from 'normal' Lobo. But they're the same, no?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's the exact same thing.You seem to have this idea that Lanterns have some weird power which doesn't work against bricks. Based on their interactions.
But you've got the logic all wrong. It's the same Lantern, right?
Same way you seem to split combat and travel speed. It's all speed.
We always debate like this, because you always split things up when it suits you. Lanterns are weak against bricks.... therefore it is what it is.
If you had in a forum fight, Lantern vs a brick and then a second fight with a non brick, for some reason you automatically say the Lanterns shields/strength/speed whatever goes down. Even if it is the exact same Lantern. Why?
Same character, right? Same guy (Hal. Or Guy, if you want to keep it simple).
You seem to accept that pretty quickly.
You split Toon Force Lobo apart from 'normal' Lobo. But they're the same, no?
I said Lanterns suck against bricks because their constructs are fodder to elite bricks. This is in and outside of team books. Their constructs, power output and durability is crap when they fight an elite.
Lol...I didn't split room force Lobo from being who he is... what I did say is, his average, he gets wrecked by beings like Hulk. Entirely different argument. Squirell girl is haxxed. If all of a sudden she starts getting worked by everyone, I will then use her average. It's like using Deadpool toon force as an average. Saying he would beat Darkseid because of his toon like showings.
Originally posted by carver9
I said Lanterns suck against bricks because their constructs are fodder to elite bricks. This is in and outside of team books. Their constructs, power output and durability is crap when they fight an elite.Lol...I didn't split room force Lobo from being who he is... what I did say is, his average, he gets wrecked by beings like Hulk. Entirely different argument. Squirell girl is haxxed. If all of a sudden she starts getting worked by everyone, I will then use her average. It's like using Deadpool toon force as an average. Saying he would beat Darkseid because of his toon like showings.
Forget team/solo books for a minute.
Are they the same character? Yes or no. If yes, why split them according to their foe?
Its not like they have a weakness against bricks, like they used to against wood or yellow. So why invent this weakness?
Answer: you're doing it based on their showings.
So why can't I split according to their books?
As for Lobo:
So do you or do you not specify Toon Force Lobo?
Why is this still being argue? Single books and team books are completely different.
Here and example.
In one Batman book, Bruce had trouble fighting and beating Talon. Now he’s added to a team book, and he outshined the likes of Flash by telling Flash how to fight a metal dog. This is the same dog the JL, a team werw having trouble with, Flash couldn’t hit. Yet Bruce was not only able to hit said dog, when Flash couldn’t, he even knocked it down.
It wasn’t till he told the League what to do, that the league succeeded.
Now mind you, this is the same Flash in his own title can think in femto seconds and creates millions of scenarios in less than a second. Yet it was Batman that told him how to beat the dogs, and how to out speed them?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Forget team/solo books for a minute.Are they the same character? Yes or no. If yes, why split them according to their foe?
Its not like they have a weakness against bricks, like they used to against wood or yellow. So why invent this weakness?
Answer: you're doing it based on their showings.
So why can't I split according to their books?
As for Lobo:
So do you or do you not specify Toon Force Lobo?
Yep, same character in JL books AND in their own mini.
No weakness. They just don't have the power to handle bricks. Their constructs are useless against them and their blasts gets brushed off and again, this is in JL books AND their own books.
I am not inventing weakness though. I just think their power is fodder when compared to elites.
You can split whatever you want but at the end of the day, in Avengers books and in a Thor book, Jane is Jane.
Cant remember what I did with Lobo since the character isn't important to me. I just know that if I ever debated against or for the character, I'm not limiting my scans to just his run. It will include EVERYTHING. Get it?