Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's still a ludicrous amount of energy that's hurtling towards them, no matter what scale you use.Even with the US quintillion, that's still essentially a universal amount of energy or whatever.
Concentrated on a key size area, then exploding out.
It's just the hype that was placed on AS Superman, only to come to terms with him being a Hercules level character after a major sun dip ballooned him above his breaking point.
Originally posted by Stoic
It's just the hype that was placed on AS Superman, only to come to terms with him being a Hercules level character after a major sun dip ballooned him above his breaking point.
Not really hype, no.
This is how much rotational kinetic energy the Earth has:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotational_energy
To save effort, spoiler alert: it's 2.138×10E29 J.
That's about the amount of energy the Sun kicks out over 10 minutes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)
OR, another way of thinking about it, the amount of energy required to keep Earth in orbit is more than that.
OR another way of thinking about it, is that he broke Samson's arm (who only had one weakness: scissors) and defeated Atlas. Who, IF we equalise across fiction, performed the same feat that Hercules did (holding the heavens up). And he beat him casually.
To say he is Herc level, when all he did was press 200 quintillion tons (casually) is...misleading.
That's like me benching 10kg (without hitting my upper limit), Bran benching 50kg, and saying oh, my limit is 50kg. When logically, there is no way you can infer that.
Originally posted by h1a8
Agreed but WBH has nothing to do with this thread.
The first time the feat was published, it had people going nuts until they realized that AS Superman was actually a weaker version than most of the Supermen from the other DC Universe Earth's, which made me laugh and bring up the Hulk as a comparison to how much this Superman would weigh on the Herc Scale.
1 Maybe 2 Herc's BIG maybe.
Interesting post from Sensui:
Originally posted by Sensui
It doesn't matter for All-Star Superman since according to Grant Morrison Superman already broke the ARMS of ATLAS and SAMSON when they armed wrestled!"In a way, I suppose. He did arm–wrestle them both, proving once and for all Superman’s stronger than anybody! And remember, these characters, along with Hercules, used to appear regularly in Superman books as his rivals. I thought they made better rivals than, say, Majestic or Ultraman because people who don’t read comics have heard of Hercules, Samson and Atlas and understand what they represent.
For that particular story, I wanted to see Superman doing tough guy shit again, like he did in the early days and then again in the 70s, when he was written as a supremely cocky macho bastard for a while. I thought a little bit of that would be an antidote to the slightly soppy, Super–Christ portrayal that was starting to gain ground.
Hence Samson’s broken arm, twisted in two directions beyond all repair. And Atlas in the hospital."
From All-Star Memories with Grant Morrison
https://www.newsarama.com/1370-all-star-memories-grant-morrison-on-all-star-superman-4.html
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not really hype, no.This is how much rotational kinetic energy the Earth has:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotational_energy
To save effort, spoiler alert: it's 2.138×10E29 J.
That's about the amount of energy the Sun kicks out over 10 minutes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)OR, another way of thinking about it, the amount of energy required to keep Earth in orbit is more than that.
OR another way of thinking about it, is that he broke Samson's arm (who only had one weakness: scissors) and defeated Atlas. Who, IF we equalise across fiction, performed the same feat that Hercules did (holding the heavens up). And he beat him casually.
To say he is Herc level, when all he did was press 200 quintillion tons (casually) is...misleading.
That's like me benching 10kg (without hitting my upper limit), Bran benching 50kg, and saying oh, my limit is 50kg. When logically, there is no way you can infer that.
Wrong guy, Samson is from the Bible, he never held up the Heavens or anything like that. Perhaps you're referring to All Star Atlas, in which case he has no feats aside from the ones mentioned in AS Superman.
Besides that, the Earth is well above the weight that he held up with one arm. No strength limit was actually given to him, but he was super charged by the sun which leads any reader to believe that his base form was well below the level that it was at before breaking the arm wrestling match. After the sun dip he may have been on or below Hyperion's level, which is about where Gladiator sits at.
Don't blame me for being the one to scrutinize the shit out of the feat. Everyone does it to all of the other characters, so hell yeah, I'll do it to Superman too. You should try it out.
Atlas and Hercules in All Star Superman comics are featless. We dont pass fts to other characters just because of their names. They are not as strong as Hercules unless they have showings proving it. That is like me saying DC Thor is as strong as Marvel Thor due to the writer knowing how powerful Marvel or the name Thor is. Or DC and Marvel Zeus being the same power level. That's ludicrous.
Originally posted by Stoic
Wrong guy, Samson is from the Bible, he never held up the Heavens or anything like that. Perhaps you're referring to All Star Atlas, in which case he has no feats aside from the ones mentioned in AS Superman.Besides that, the Earth is well above the weight that he held up with one arm. No strength limit was actually given to him, but he was super charged by the sun which leads any reader to believe that his base form was well below the level that it was at before breaking the arm wrestling match. After the sun dip he may have been on or below Hyperion's level, which is about where Gladiator sits at.
Don't blame me for being the one to scrutinize the shit out of the feat. Everyone does it to all of the other characters, so hell yeah, I'll do it to Superman too. You should try it out.
You misread my post. Perhaps you should spend more time scrutinising it lol.
I said Samson only had one weakness. Scissors. It's from the Bible.
Atlas held up the heavens.
Originally posted by carver9
Atlas and Hercules in All Star Superman comics are featless. We dont pass fts to other characters just because of their names. They are not as strong as Hercules unless they have showings proving it. That is like me saying DC Thor is as strong as Marvel Thor due to the writer knowing how powerful Marvel or the name Thor is. Or DC and Marvel Zeus being the same power level. That's ludicrous.
Not quite.
Read Sensuis post. Atlas and Samson were old Superman foes that Grant Morrison used.
The fact that they're so old none of us know, means they're prob Silver Age pre Crisis guys.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not quite.Read Sensuis post. Atlas and Samson were old Superman foes that Grant Morrison used.
The fact that they're so old none of us know, means they're prob Silver Age pre Crisis guys.
All Silver Age, and Pre Crisis characters were severely reduced in power once Byrne began working on the title in the 80's though, and they have never returned to those ridiculous levels from my recollection. It was even mentioned in a letters page of the changes that Superman and other characters had gone through in order to make him appear more realistic, and contiguous by comic book standards. You know this right?
Anyway AS Superman is not the strongest version of Superman by a long shot.
Originally posted by Stoic
All Silver Age, and Pre Crisis characters were severely reduced in power once Byrne began working on the title in the 80's though, and they have never returned to those ridiculous levels from my recollection. It was even mentioned in a letters page of the changes that Superman and other characters had gone through in order to make him appear more realistic, and contiguous by comic book standards. You know this right?Anyway AS Superman is not the strongest version of Superman by a long shot.
Did Atlas and Samson appear post Crisis then?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Most likely. 👆
Not quite.Read Sensuis post. Atlas and Samson were old Superman foes that Grant Morrison used.
The fact that they're so old none of us know, means they're prob Silver Age pre Crisis guys.
After all, that issue portrayed Samson and Atlas as casual time-travelers, who routinely time/dimension-hopped for the lulz.
...Which is important, because we now know for a fact(ie. we no longer have to use DC One Million to connect the dots) that the All-Star-verse is part of DC's canon Hypertime:
https://i.imgur.com/iPPbjjJ.jpg
*upper right corner
Originally posted by Stoic
The first time the feat was published, it had people going nuts until they realized that AS Superman was actually a weaker version than most of the Supermen from the other DC Universe Earth's, which made me laugh and bring up the Hulk as a comparison to how much this Superman would weigh on the Herc Scale.1 Maybe 2 Herc's BIG maybe.
So basically you believe that a character operates at the level of their highest feat at all times in a comic?
Or do you believe a character is as strong as their highest feat in a forum?
I ask this because your statement implies that other Superman are stronger.
Post crisis Superman may or may not have greater strength feats but he didn’t operate at that type of strength on average.
AS Superman feats ARE HIS AVERAGE. He always operates at these type of strengths.
Plus remember that AS Superman showed no limit. He never once strained. Therefore these feats of his are actually LOWER BOUNDS.
Originally posted by carver9
What changes did they go through during all this time or did they go into hiding or something?
*shrug* probably none, probably amped 1000x, probably depowered to mortal humans....no idea, so we are forced to keep them at their old levels.
I mean, when BiBeast pops up in Heart of the Monster with Hulk, having not been seen for years, do we say nahhhh his fights with Savage Hulk and Thor were like, 1000s of years ago, older than my grandma (lol)? When ArmCheddon appears, do we assume he's gone through changes in the intervening years?
Morrison just wanted to show - clearly - that ASS was stronger than he had ever been. Sure, he COULD'VE shown ASS beating Ultraman, or Majestic, or anyone else....but a casual reader would have no idea who Ultraman or Majestic were.
However, most casual readers would know who Samson or Atlas were. So Superman beat them, handily. To show how strong he was.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*shrug* probably none, probably amped 1000x, probably depowered to mortal humans....no idea, so we are forced to keep them at their old levels.I mean, when BiBeast pops up in Heart of the Monster with Hulk, having not been seen for years, do we say nahhhh his fights with Savage Hulk and Thor were like, 1000s of years ago, older than my grandma (lol)? When ArmCheddon appears, do we assume he's gone through changes in the intervening years?
Morrison just wanted to show - clearly - that ASS was stronger than he had ever been. Sure, he COULD'VE shown ASS beating Ultraman, or Majestic, or anyone else....but a casual reader would have no idea who Ultraman or Majestic were.
However, most casual readers would know who Samson or Atlas were. So Superman beat them, handily. To show how strong he was.
We have never debated like this which is the reason future Gladiator showings doesn't belong to him. Let's not change things to make Superman look cute. We debate off of fts, so I ask, what have Sampson and Hercules done FEAT WISE to make this a special showing for Superman?
