Originally posted by h1a8We see him change the blast into bubbles you moron.
An illusion. Not real.The gun shot bubbles, the blast wasn't shown to turn into bubbles.
Like Thanos turned anyone he faced into bubbles.
He will suddenly do it here, and from the jump?
Did you watch the scene? If he so chooses but he uses the reality stone. It warps reality you numbnuts.
Thanos defeats those who become aggressive. Too combat savy for the blue streaker.
Originally posted by quanchi112
We see him change the blast into bubbles you moron.Did you watch the scene? If he so chooses but he uses the reality stone. It warps reality you numbnuts.
Thanos defeats those who become aggressive. Too combat savy for the blue streaker.
I'll rewatch the scene. I recall bubbles coming out of the gun.
Warps reality? To what extent? We see it used to matter manipulate and create illusions.
Anyway, Thanos never turned anyone to bubbles when given the opportunity. He fought the avengers straight up, including strange and iron man. He's done here. 😘
Originally posted by h1a8What do you think the reality stone has power over? Each stone represents what aspect they have power over you moron.
I'll rewatch the scene. I recall bubbles coming out of the gun.
Warps reality? To what extent? We see it used to matter manipulate and create illusions.Anyway, Thanos never turned anyone to bubbles when given the opportunity. He fought the avengers straight up, including strange and iron man. He's done here. 😘
Ok, listen here moron he fought and beat them using the stones. Did Manhattan defeat ozy or even notbgo alimg with the guy? Nah. Manhattan was duped, tricked, and submitted to his will whereas Thanos enforced his on the entire universe.
Thanos crushes Ozys cuck.
Illusion.
Antonym: Reality
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/illusion
Only h1 would theorize that something is the exact definitive opposite of what it is just so that he could lowball it.
😂
Also, as demonstrated when he turned Mantis into a sentient confetti and diced Drax without killing him, these “illusions†are as real and affect the targets so realistically that they may as well be reality. DM has zero defense defense against this. So yeah, Reality stone > DM.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Also, as demonstrated when he turned Mantis into a sentient confetti and diced Drax without killing him, these “illusions†are as real and affect the targets so realistically that they may as well be reality. DM has zero defense defense against this. So yeah, Reality stone > DM.
Not sure if this one has been shown yet (I honestly can't be bothered to read through this whole thread), but he also transmutes debris into bats at around the 0:20 mark here:
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Apparently, it’s called the “Illusion” gem now. Not the “Reality” stone.
Note: matter manipulation = reality warping
Even if Thanos can warp reality (matter manipulate) on a large scale then he never did it in a fight. Why didn't he turn everyone into bubbles? He sat there and went to toe to toe with strange and iron man. Those two fights are indicative of how he would operate here. He's done for.
h1’s lowballing and attempt to move the debate to an irrelevant tangent (as always) aside, this fight is decided on the whether or not DM can one shot kill Thanos before Thanos can will him into bubbles or raise a defense against said attack and all attacks to follow. The evidence is lacking in terms of being able to do any of the above (being able to hit first and being able to one shot) on the DM side so far. In any protracted fight, IMO, Thanos will win no contest.
Will now have to lean towards “Thanos wins” until someone presents a compelling “feat” on the DM side.
Originally posted by Nib
DM is not an AI and does not need to be hacked. My point was that the Mind stone is fully capable of affecting disembodied consciousness similar to DM (like Ultron). And you’re right, he won’t defeat him by locking him in, it’s just one avenue he could affect DM in. Another is mind control (w/c would indeed be a win).
Is it an Avenue though?
Ultron was clearly hacked (possibly with aid from the mindstone). As previous to that Wanda would not even sense his thoughts. And only sensed Visions later. So that was clearly a hack and not very relevant.
Loki needed physical contact to effect minds, and even then was stopped by something as simple as Tony's chest plate.
Originally posted by Nib
As for physical contact, I did say that this is simply an approach (meaning a method Thanos can use to win). Executing it would depend on how the battle would go. Sadly, we do not know how the mind gem works in unison with the others (the space stone for example). However, Thanos can use the Space stone to shorten the range between them and perhaps even do a touch attack eventually.
Manhattan not only goes intangible, not only creates shields but teleports with a mere thought.
So that's not happening.
Originally posted by Nib
How is it a no limits fallacy? We see what the reality gem can do, how it can affect huge areas (such as in Knowhere). And how absolutely the rules can be broken (he can turn a living being into pieces of fully conscious flat paper coils or chop them up into pieces without killing or even hurting them). It is well beyond anything that DM has shown on screen, thus “feat-wise” in both power and fine control, Thanos has got DM beat by miles.
Because again, it was done to being not even close to Manhattan in power.
That's where the no limits fallacy come in.
He changed Drax and Manta. And he's changed debris into bats. None of that is beyond Manhattan's matter manipulations abilties either.
Originally posted by Nib
For as long as Thanos controls reality, DM (who functions within the rules of reality) will not be able to use his powers the way he wants to as Thanos can basically rewrite these rules himself. It’s like being a grandmaster in chess but having the rules of chess suddenly changed to gibberish.
Again that is a no limits fallacy, because that's like me saying that as long as Thanos is made of matter, then DM can transmute and disintegrate him.
So a lot of what the reality stone can do is also down to theory.
And in terms of actual combat feats, he didn't use it against Iron Man or Thor.
He in fact shot Thor with the full IG, which was deflected.
Not arguing that if Thor can do it then DM can. Am arguing the No Limits Fallacy should apply just as much to the reality stone as it does to DMs matter transmutation.
Originally posted by Nib
If it ever becomes a fight, by “feats” and showings, Thanos will win.The merit of the pro-DM position lies in the quickdraw argument. And it is the main reason that I’m still not decided.
Oh DM wins the quick draw without a doubt. He literally has to think to teleport Thanos to the sun. I realise Thanos can teleport back, but it's literally a thought or a wave of the hand with DM. And this from the guy who sees the immediate future.
Originally posted by NibedicusThis is why the kid fails on virtually every pitiful front he chooses to debate on. Somehow realty becomes illusions because h1 is so dishonest and void of objectivity he would rather carry on the illusion he debates when we all know he just wants to troll for attention.
Illusion.Antonym: Reality
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/illusion
Only h1 would theorize that something is the exact definitive opposite of what it is just so that he could lowball it.
😂
Also, as demonstrated when he turned Mantis into a sentient confetti and diced Drax without killing him, these “illusions†are as real and affect the targets so realistically that they may as well be reality. DM has zero defense defense against this. So yeah, Reality stone > DM.
The streaker allows his attacker to blow him up and convince him to follow along with Ozys plan in a true cuck like devotion. Manhattan is a joke in his own film manipulated by that worlds smartest man. Thanos would look through him and treat this living joke as an after thought.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) Is it an Avenue though?Ultron was clearly hacked (possibly with aid from the mindstone). As previous to that Wanda would not even sense his thoughts. And only sensed Visions later. So that was clearly a hack and not very relevant.
Loki needed physical contact to effect minds, and even then was stopped by something as simple as Tony's chest plate.
2) Manhattan not only goes intangible, not only creates shields but teleports with a mere thought.
So that's not happening.
Because again, it was done to being not even close to Manhattan in power.
That's where the no limits fallacy come in.
3) He changed Drax and Manta. And he's changed debris into bats. None of that is beyond Manhattan's matter manipulations abilties either.
4) Again that is a no limits fallacy, because that's like me saying that as long as Thanos is made of matter, then DM can transmute and disintegrate him.
So a lot of what the reality stone can do is also down to theory.
5) And in terms of actual combat feats, he didn't use it against Iron Man or Thor.
He in fact shot Thor with the full IG, which was deflected.
Not arguing that if Thor can do it then DM can. Am arguing the No Limits Fallacy should apply just as much to the reality stone as it does to DMs matter transmutation.
6) Oh DM wins the quick draw without a doubt. He literally has to think to teleport Thanos to the sun. I realise Thanos can teleport back, but it's literally a thought or a wave of the hand with DM. And this from the guy who sees the immediate future.
1) Yes, it would be an avenue. Tho, I already did say it is an irrelevant one. Mind control is all Thanos needs to win. And all he needs to do is touch DM to do it. I didn’t say this would happen right away, just that it could happen during a fight (Such as when Thanos wiped out Strange’s clones, shoved him back into a single body and pulled him in).
2) Manhattan has ZERO, none, zilch mental defense “feats”. At worst, he has gone on to show that he would lose a battle of wills against a very smart guy with a PHD in psychology. His powers made him mentally weak, not strong (mental strength is mostly built thru adversity and the will to overcome, he has spent most of his existent in the complete opposite of this w/c is shown by his complete apathy towards everything). IF Thanos manages to use the Mind gem, DM loses. Based on “feats”. Plain and simple.
3) Based on what “feats”? Pls post DM matter control “feats” that would be equal or even close to: turning a living being into sentient confetti or sliced cubes without killing or even hurting them.
4) That is NOT a no-limits fallacy. A no limits fallacy is if I stated that Thanos can perform something he has not shown to be able to do on screen.
DM’s powers are science-based, meaning they function within a rigid set of rules. He can bend them, sure, but he still needs to function within these rules. Thanos’ reality warp has allowed him to chop ppl up and turn them to confetti while they still remaining conscious and basically unhurt. To turn debris into bats and to turn energy blasts into bubbles. No amount of science-based matter manipulation would allow this, at least no amount that DM has shown on screen.
In terms of sheer scale, level of control and ability to break fundamental rules of the physical universe, Thanos “feats” shits on anything and everything DM did in the movie. IF not, then post “feats”.
It is not a no-limits fallacy to state that, due to “feats”, Thanos’ reality manipulation would overrule DM’s matter and energy manipulation in a direct contest between the two.
5) And what does that prove? Thanos used it on the guardians when it suited him. He doesn’t need to use it all the time, he just needs to be shown capable of using it.
He never got a chance to use it against Thor. Their exchange lasted a few seconds and Thanos was more interested in getting his life’s work done and leaving so he did. So I don’t know WHY you would even mention it.
6) Based on what “feats” does he win the quick draw? And why do you think Thanos would be unable to defend himself from forced teleportation when he’s been able to defend against something as escoteric as a mirror universe banishment? And why would you think an IG Thanos would be even hurt by the Sun when he can simply shield himself from it then teleport back?
Also, DM’s teleportation has a lag time of about a little over 1 to 2 seconds. It is not instantaneous. It is also pretty telegraphed due to the energy tendrils and the noise it makes.
(1:11-1:13) When he telported Rorsh
(3:17-3:18) When he teleported away with SS
This would give Thanos sufficient time to defend himself from any and all teleport shenanigans DM would use on him.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
h1’s lowballing and attempt to move the debate to an irrelevant tangent (as always) aside, this fight is decided on the whether or not DM can one shot kill Thanos before Thanos can will him into bubbles or raise a defense against said attack and all attacks to follow. The evidence is lacking in terms of being able to do any of the above (being able to hit first and being able to one shot) on the DM side so far. In any protracted fight, IMO, Thanos will win no contest.Will now have to lean towards “Thanos wins” until someone presents a compelling “feat” on the DM side.
Thanos never willed anyone into bubbles. He sat there and fought with many of them. He didn't even try (or couldn’t) change stormbreaker into bubbles. Why would he here all of a sudden. Are we in control of the characters? If so then I'll change my argument to both.
We have two questions
1. Can he change DM into bubbles where DM can't reappear?
I say no as DM doesn't need a material body to exist. He can also clone himself many times.
2. Will Thanos think about it and choose to do that?
I say no because he never did it once given ALL the fights he was in with the reality stone. Unless we are in control of the characters.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ I think turning debris into bats goes a bit beyond matter manipulation.It changes reality itself. Which is more magical in nature. DMs matter manipulation is much more scientific (or science fiction) in nature.
Yes Thanos can matter manipulate, I stated this. We are arguing semantics.
Matter manipulation = reality warping
Magic = science we don't understand
Yes Thanos can change shit into other shit. I stated this.
But on a large scale? He creates illusions (those beings weren't real). He possibly can turn a whole planet into bubbles though but this is irrelevant as he never just turned everyone into bubbles or bats. He sat there and fought with them.
^If you think I’m going to spend 10-15 pages continuously correcting your woefull knowledge of the characters you are debating like I have many times, sorry to say you no longer hold my interest.
You have no credibility to speak of and I’ll not waste my time debating stupid with someone who doesn’t care about his own credibility and resorts to trolling 99% of the time. If your logic has merit someone might piggyback off it and if they have credibility then I’ll debate them. But you? Not worth my time.
Originally posted by NibedicusH1 deserves no serious replies just a casual mocking here and there to remind him of his place on the food chain.
^If you think I’m going to spend 10-15 pages continuously correcting your woefull knowledge of the characters you are debating like I have many times, sorry to say you no longer hold my interest.You have no credibility to speak of and I’ll not waste my time debating stupid with someone who doesn’t care about his own credibility and resorts to trolling 99% of the time. If your logic has merit someone might piggyback off it and if they have credibility then I’ll debate them. But you? Not worth my time.
Originally posted by Robtard
I still think DM wins, but arguing that Thanos cannot harm DM with the might of the Infinity Gauntlet/Stones is that of retards.eg Thanos could revert DM back into him human form with the Reality Stone and them casually destroy by any number of means.
Most probably. And I would certainly pick reality warping powers over matter manipulation.
Im just arguing that the whole shouldnt have no limits fallacy thing should be equally applied on both sides.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
^If you think I’m going to spend 10-15 pages continuously correcting your woefull knowledge of the characters you are debating like I have many times, sorry to say you no longer hold my interest.You have no credibility to speak of and I’ll not waste my time debating stupid with someone who doesn’t care about his own credibility and resorts to trolling 99% of the time. If your logic has merit someone might piggyback off it and if they have credibility then I’ll debate them. But you? Not worth my time.
That's fine as my point will still stand.
Thanos is suddenly going to turn DM into bubbles from the jump when he hasn't done anyone in the movie like that and has fought several toe to toe and not transmute them at all. He even shot Drax and Starlord with a gem effect and it didn't transmute them at all.
So you are with debating member controlled characters or you not.