Snoke vs sidious

Started by Zentrex27 pages
Zentrex Hi!

I was under the impression he'd been training since before Luke's academy, considering how young jedi usually start and that he was the nephew of the last jedi at the time of RotJ.

DarthPlaguis12 Restricted

What makes you think that makes him as trained as a knight you or a sith lord you dunce? Snoke treated him like a learner. This makes Luke look even weaker as he was beaten by two newbs. Look how easily Snoke defeated them. Snoke must be far above Luke in force power.

I explained that Luke only won because Vader wasn’t going full force.

And yes the fact that ventures n dooku used the force during battle as did Vader proves my point

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

I didn't get the impression that Kylo had received any formal training before he went to Luke's Academy.

Prior to that, Ben was just a kid with anger issues and a LOT of raw power. That's why Leia sent him to Luke in the first place -- she hoped the Jedi training would 'fix' him. /shrug

Zenwolf Senior Member

There's just too much speculation surrounding these new characters, there needs to be time given for more material to flesh out that era. Which unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot given the new trilogy is still going, authors either working on new GCW era material or prior material for the Clone Wars.

Guarantee when the new ST is finished, more effort will be pushed towards to fill in the gaps and power of characters and so on.

One Big Mob Dead

You're the only one who's speculating though to give your nu-canon boys a leg up.

Zenwolf Senior Member
Originally posted by One Big Mob
You're the only one who's speculating though to give your nu-canon boys a leg up.

I haven't even been involved with any of this, but from what I've been reading...yeah there just doesn't seem to be a consensus on anything.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Zenwolf
There's just too much speculation surrounding these new characters, there needs to be time given for more material to flesh out that era. Which unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot given the new trilogy is still going, authors either working on new GCW era material or prior material for the Clone Wars.

Guarantee when the new ST is finished, more effort will be pushed towards to fill in the gaps and power of characters and so on.

Of course.

At some point in the future it is indeed possible that a credible/canon source will confirm that Snoke is the most powerful entity the mythos has ever seen. But as of right now, he's got very little in the way of canonical feats/accolades -- and the ones he does have certainly do not put him at the top of the hierarchy.

victreebelvictr Flowey's Only Friend

I do indeed agree that snoke is powerful though I would think that Luke sky walker could beat him. And yes, maybe he has stronger force, that is not confirmed, though lightsabers are snokes weakness. That is why he surrounds himself with guards made to fight and be stronger than palpatines. He would just attack from behind the guards.

One Big Mob Dead

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I haven't even been involved with any of this, but from what I've been reading...yeah there just doesn't seem to be a consensus on anything.
Sorry. I saw "Zen" and jumped the gun. Your names are too similar. Way too similar

DarthPlaguis12 Restricted

I think Force wise Snoke would have crushed Luke, but I do believe he wanted the praetorians for that, they were specifically trained to kill Jedi.

Zentrex Hi!

Originally posted by Galan007
I didn't get the impression that Kylo had received any formal training before he went to Luke's Academy.

Prior to that, Ben was just a kid with anger issues and a LOT of raw power. That's why Leia sent him to Luke in the first place -- she hoped the Jedi training would 'fix' him. /shrug


Yeah, I guess you're right. I only assumed because the jedi were meant to start their training at the age of like, 6, and Ben was the nephew of the last living Jedi. But then Luke also wanted to move away from the jedi order, so I guess it's all speculation.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
There's just too much speculation surrounding these new characters, there needs to be time given for more material to flesh out that era. Which unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot given the new trilogy is still going, authors either working on new GCW era material or prior material for the Clone Wars.

Guarantee when the new ST is finished, more effort will be pushed towards to fill in the gaps and power of characters and so on.


Yeah...yeah, you're right.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I haven't even been involved with any of this, but from what I've been reading...yeah there just doesn't seem to be a consensus on anything.

The books are all (almost all) "journeys to the [next film]" so they try and tie into the film a lot more than they do to each other.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
You're the only one who's speculating though to give your nu-canon boys a leg up.

I'll admit I did speculate about Kylo's training, and a little about Snoke's powers, but the latter just makes sense to me.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
I do indeed agree that snoke is powerful though I would think that Luke sky walker could beat him. And yes, maybe he has stronger force, that is not confirmed, though lightsabers are snokes weakness. That is why he surrounds himself with guards made to fight and be stronger than palpatines. He would just attack from behind the guards.

agreed.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Sorry. I saw "Zen" and jumped the gun. Your names are too similar. Way too similar

Yeah, it's kind of funny. I made that name up back in like 2009 'cause I thought it sounded cool.
It was kind of like "zaltrax" from power rangers, and it had "T-rex" in the name, and a "zen" which always sounds cool. There was a TV show called "zentrix" running at the time as well, though I didn't know about it.
And apparently it's also an account on Wookieepedia that's been around since before I made mine. And then SNL comes out and makes this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZrYeUX3MI
And then I join KMC forums, and what do I know but we have a buddhist wolf to my buddhist dinosaur.

Zentrex Hi!
What makes you think that makes him as trained as a knight you or a sith lord you dunce? Snoke treated him like a learner. This makes Luke look even weaker as he was beaten by two newbs. Look how easily Snoke defeated them. Snoke must be far above Luke in force power.

How else do you treat a student? He was trained for much longer than Luke was, and his potential is probably greater. And I don't agree he was beaten by either of them.

I explained that Luke only won because Vader wasn’t going full force.

But you didn't adderss my counter of "He could have defeated him without killing him if he could overpower him." or of "Luke wasn't going full force either, he didn't want to fight" or of "The novel states that Luke improved upon Vader's personalized style of Djem So, showing that he's a better duelist"

And yes the fact that ventures n dooku used the force during battle as did Vader proves my point

But it doesn't disprove my point of "Kylo and Rey also used Force abilities when fighting each other and others" and they still couldn't use the force when 8 trained warriors were attacking them at once, which was probably keeping them distracted and unfocused.

DarthPlaguis12 Restricted

Then you admit they were students and not fully trained stupid. So? Anakin was trained for years n years, he wasn’t as powerful as he was as Vader. What do you call getting knocked on your ass with a weapon put in your face or knocked out n your school burned...I call that defeated.

Luke did nothing but hide from Vader in the last duel what are you talking about lol. Then he attacked Vader from behind tapping into his anger. Vader didn’t even use his force powers, if he had it would have been another cloud city with a defeated Luke.

It does actually, it shows Kyle and Rey aren’t as well trained as they are.

You’re a flaming moron

Zentrex Hi!

Then you admit they were students and not fully trained

You can always improve. I said Kylo and Rey were on a jedi knight's level. Of course you can still be trained to be better than that.
Anakin was trained for years n years, he wasn’t as powerful as he was as Vader.

He wasn't as powerful as Vader, no, but he was far more powerful than most jedi. And his arrogance and overconfidence, and the jedi trying to teach him that power isn't everything kept him from being as powerful as he could be.
What do you call getting knocked on your ass with a weapon put in your face or knocked out n your school burned...I call that defeated

Vader "got knocked on his ass with a weapon put in [his] face" yet you insist that he wasn't defeated. What makes you think Luke was going full force in his fight with Rey? And with Kylo, he tried to stop him, I hardly think he would have expected him to react the way he did.
Luke did nothing but hide from Vader in the last duel what are you talking about

He started by out-fighting Vader, and kicking him down the steps. Then he realized that he shouldn't be violent, and deactivated his weapon before Vader attacked him and said "You are unwise to lower your defenses." After that, he tried to hide.
Vader didn’t even use his force powers, if he had it would have been another cloud city with a defeated Luke

Normally, when a force user doesn't use the force against another force user, it's because the second force user is powerful enough to use a barrier to nullify the effects of the first force user's attack, essentially making the attack wasted energy on the first force user's part. In that case, the smart decision is to refrain from using the force.
And I still don't understand why you don't think Luke increased in power from ESB to RotJ. The beginning is meant to show that his powers have increased.
It does actually, it shows Kyle and Rey aren’t as well trained as they are.

Why do you assume that the Preatorians are less powerful than the non-force using fighters Assajj and Dooku fought? Your logic only works if this is the case, although nothing suggests it is.

DarthPlaguis12 Restricted

Obviously they weren’t though, how can they be a knight level without training, you’re totally an idiot. Kylo was even told by Snoke he wasn’t wise at all.

Ok, so? I’m just saying that even Anakin needed decades of training ya ****.

Vader got attacked from behind bro, and all Vader did was try to defend himself he wasn’t even really attacking Luke, notice how on cloud city when he got serious Luke lost his saber then his arm. Again did Vader use the force at all?

Luke was knocked out like a *****, get over it bro, then he was knocked in his ass, but then your e cause is he didn’t wanna hurt Rey lol. He was sucker punched by kylo

So then you admit Luke ran? Thanks

That’s not how a force barrier works idiot...it stops you from getting force choked etc not from getting hit by shit though an equally powerful user can stop that too

Cause they lost to newbs ? Who did they struggle with that was not a force user, enlighten me.

DarthPlaguis12 Restricted

Tell me as you think Luke as as strong as Yoda

When was Yoda, dooku, or Sidious ever schooled by a newb in that way. Go ahead

Zentrex Hi!

Obviously they weren’t though, how can they be a knight level without training

Kylo had twelve years of training. Why is it so obvious that he's not knight level?
Kylo was even told by Snoke he wasn’t wise at all

What does wisdom have to do with power?
Ok, so?

So, it's possible for someone of Anakin's potential to be knight level with 12 years of training.
I’m just saying that even Anakin needed decades of training

It took 12 years to go from Padawan to Knight, and 3 more years to get to council member. He should have been a master a lot longer ago, if he wasn't as arrogant. Kylo had 11 years of training. And he wasn't as arrogant, or held back by the Jedi.
Vader got attacked from behind

So did Luke. Difference is, Luke managed to defend himself.
all Vader did was try to defend himself

And he failed to do so. And I'm pretty sure the reason he didn't attack was because he couldn't.
get over it bro

You're just making blatant statements without supporting them. The point of a debate is showing your reasons for believing something, not repeating the fact that you believe it. I could just as easily say "Luke's a powerful guy, get over it bro" and it would be just as good of an argument.
So then you admit Luke ran

When'd I say that?
That’s not how a force barrier works idiot...it stops you from getting force choked etc not from getting hit by shit though an equally powerful user can stop that too

You describe precisely what I said. Why would Vader waste energy on trying to force choke Luke when he knows Luke can just resist it with the barrier? That's generally why lightsaber fights happen. Because the user knows that fighting using the force won't get them anywhere.
Cause they lost to newbs ?

So you're saying that the Preatorians are weak because they lost to Rey and Kylo who are weak because they lost to the Preatorians? That's cirular logic.
Who did they struggle with that was not a force user

That can be explained away by the idea that the non-force users they faced probably were weaker than the Preatorians.
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Tell me as you think Luke as as strong as Yoda

When was Yoda, dooku, or Sidious ever schooled by a newb in that way. Go ahead


You first have to convince me that Luke was owned by a newb.

victreebelvictr Flowey's Only Friend

Luke can easily defeat both kylo and rey at the same time. He was defeated because he was being stupid and was surprised. Kylo brought the roof down on him and escaped. Not a defeat, more like a surprise. Rey surprised him with the lightsaber pull.

DarthPlaguis12 Restricted

It’s a defeat bro, so was his fight with Rey.

DarthPlaguis12 Restricted

At zentrex

Whwtnmakes you think he is at a knight level as he still needed training by Snoke and Snoke said he was a dumb ass. Did he pass anything like the trials?

Wisdom does have to do with maturity though n you have to have a certain level of maturity to be a knight.

Anakin was different though, he didn’t formally pass the trails but went through the clone wars and things as hard as the trials proving he was tough enough and mature enough, but in the end it was Yoda who made him a knight. The council debated it till Yoda broke the debate. You need to have a certain amount of maturity or power to progress. Why do you think he was not made a master, because he was thought to lack the maturity of a master.

Lol...what did kylo do that matches anything Anakin did? Anakin fought the clone wars, fought count dooku, won many battles....wtf are you talking about lol. He was made a council member by Palpatine, the chancellor had total authority over the Jedi order, as much as the Jedi thought themselves above politics, They were funded by the republic and the senate gave Palpatine total control of the order, they were the generals of the grand army dummy, yet Palpatine was the supreme commander.

I’ve done so many times, you must be too stupid to see it. Go ahead but what evidence do you have to support it, he lost twice and I gave you evidence lol.

In your previous statement

Again there’s nothing really to say he was as strong as Vader on screen or in the books, if there is show it, I’ll wait.

Who lost to the praetorians ? I’m not saying the praetorians were weak if I did let me correct myself. But they did lose to newbs in the end.

No no, who did Ventress or Dooku struggle with who was not a force user, tell me.

I don’t have to convince you of anything, the evidence I’d there, if you’re to stupid to understand how can I convince you? How is Luke as strong as Yoda, tell me. Explain.