Originally posted by Kurk
Yoda and Sidious don't have holes in their f*cking throats and heads. Honestly Snoke looks worse than Vader out of his suit. Scary af too:Andy Serkis on Snoke's injuries:
Also I'd imagine it'd be much more difficult to fight when you have scoliosis lol:
"For those who've been wondering why Snoke looks so scarred and deformed, Serkis says it's a combination of both past conflicts and his body wearing down. As the actor explained:
Andy Serkis' response about where Snoke's damage came after he talked about imagining that the character has scoliosis of the spine, hence why there's a slouching quality to Snoke rather than the actor being stiff and formal. Serkis didn't elaborate on the battles that Snoke was involved in, but it is interesting to have this extra tidbit of information."
So yeah, he's effectively a cripple--moreso than Sidious or Yoda who simply used canes.
I am like Raven--always in control of my emotions. They serve me. I like Snoke a lot more than Yoda and he's neck and neck with Palpatine on my favorites list.
That's actually a very good point. Speed might just kill him. You're starting to make me lean.
Originally posted by Kurk
See this would be easy if I could whip out my EU source books and prove to you that Sidious only uses a cane to appear weak to test who will try to challenge him, that his red guard's primary purpose is not to protect him but to spy on Vader, assassinate, etc.I'm trying to do this all Disney canon since you hate Legends so much.
Lol what makes him a better walker than Yoda? He's obviously a hunch back:
Let's see, true or false:
Having scoliosis will make it difficult for you to fight
The more debilities he has the more he has to compensate for them with the force, and that in turn is more demanding in prolonged combat where most of his energies have to be focused on his failing body and not his offenses.
Idk why you keep saying I'm ruled by my emotions.
Serkis's quote is ambiguous and there is no-one else to second it. What does more powerful mean exactly? Political power? Military? Combination of everything?
I'm sure more of the forum will support Snoke once we learn of his back-story and how he got his injuries, but until then, we're limited.
Snoke is badass dude. I listen to these videos therapeutically!
What d'ya think makes the Supreme Leader happy?
You're making my day, man.
Originally posted by Kurk
Serkis imagines him as “a couple of hundred years old” with a litany of egregious injuries from “previous battles” that have left him permanently scarred, made worse by “a sort of decay.” Snoke wasn’t always just a menacing leader wielding power from a blood-red throne room. He used to be a fighter — before somebody caved in his skull.“I’ve always approached him as someone who is obviously in a position of supreme power,” Serkis said, “but actually, [b]there is a level of vulnerability about the character.”
He may be one of the most powerful Force users we’ve ever seen, but Snoke’s many injuries probably made him physically vulnerable: “The way that his face is caved in, he has those deep scarifications. His skull’s almost been crushed.”“He is withered and slightly twisted in his spine, so that gave him that lurch,” Serkis added. “Those injuries are things that he has carried for a long time, and it’s almost like a form of arthritis.” This physical vulnerability made Snoke operate from a place of fear, a position he probably knew was risky.
“When you’re operating from a level of fear, you operate dangerously as a leader,” Serkis rationalized. Typical of most villains on the Dark side of the Force, Snoke ruled from a place of fear.
https://www.inverse.com/article/41983-the-last-jedi-snoke-any-serkis-backstory [/B]
I didn't even know Serkis made those statements, but that was exactly the position I'd held. So perhaps that gives more validity to my arguments?
So, okay. I still think Snoke's more powerful because of his (well, probably his) actions in the Aftermath Series, and Serkis' statements, and his history, but I'll admit he'll lose combatively, because he's physically hindered. Although in a force lightning competition, Snoke could probably overpower him.
Originally posted by Sinious
Proof Talzin isn't more powerful than them at the heart of her power? And if they are superior to Talzin, and Talzin stalemated him (which is highly debatable), the fact that Palpatine stalemated Yoda (Mace's superior) means that Palpatine grew in power quite a bit between SoD and RotS, which doesn't help your case at all, since this isn't SoD Sidious vs Snoke.
Alright, I concede on this point.
So, let me get this straight. You're admitting that they are not the same force power, but they still need to be achieved through the exact same means.Do you not see the problem in this?
It's the only comparison between the feats that I could find. It wasn't my main argument for why the feat is powerful, it's just the only comparison to Sheev.
LMAO. That's what I said. He doesn't need to be the GOAT in every category, so no one ever claimed that he is. TK and "energy based powers" are literally %100 of the non-esoteric force powers, and they are also the most combat applicable ones, so if Palpatine is the GOAT in areas that are most decisive in combat, that is enough. What kind of a shitty strawman is this?
I wouldn't consider TP to be "esoteric" or combat inapplicable. You can still use it to hurt someone. If he's the greatest in that area, then he has a chance of attack. And I'm pretty sure the creators don't believe you can be better with one ability and poorer with another, anyway.
Indeed. I'm glad we agree that Snoke has an impressive feat, but cannot be placed anywhere near Palpatine because of it, since by your own words, it would be a bad comparison to make.
With relentless1's argument about Sheev's clouding of the Jedi's mind, I don't consider Sheev to be below the bridge feat anymore.
Well, I'm sorry to say your baseless opinions don't matter here. Not only are you defending a featless character against a character with great feats, but also your featless character is holistically meant to be below the character with great feats. GL stated that Palpatine is the devil of SW Universe, and anyone who is genuine with the lore would be hesitant to put another villain above him even if they have superior feats, let alone a character with inferior feats, scaling and accolades.
George's words from 2005 are about as irrelevant as they can be in this environment. Pretty sure he himself barely believes that anymore. It may still be true in legends. It may still be true in G-canon. But the sequels have gone far and wide to "outdo" the original trilogy, and so a stronger big bad is just part of the recipie.
Except this one:
Originally posted by ZentrexAnakin Skywalker and his prophecy are still the center dynamic of Star Wars. Even the sequels are a mere aftermath of his story. GL who not only created SW but also wrote that specific story clearly has a right to bring explanations on it. Palpatine is blatantly meant to be the ultimate villain of SW as he is the source of evil in Anakin's story. The fact that Anakin was needed in Palpatine's time is not a coincidence.
George's words from 2005 are about as irrelevant as they can be in this environment. Pretty sure he himself barely believes that anymore. It may still be true in legends. It may still be true in G-canon. But the sequels have gone far and wide to "outdo" the original trilogy, and so a stronger big bad is just part of the recipie.
Certain technological advancements might have been made by the time of FO, but the Empire was still much bigger both military wise and in terms of how much of the galaxy it controlled. There is also the Kylo - Vader dynamic, and Kylo is far from being the bigger & badder Vader. In fact, it's the opposite. So, I'm not sure what you're on about when you say a stronger big bad is in the recipe.
Originally posted by ZentrexBased on what evidence?
Although in a force lightning competition, Snoke could probably overpower him.
Originally posted by ZentrexUnless the statements Lucas made have been directly contradicted/redacted by Disney canon, they are just as valid now as they were then.
George's words from 2005 are about as irrelevant as they can be in this environment.
Keep in mind, GL's works(ie. Episodes I-VI + TCW Seasons 1-6) still represent the large majority of SW-canon.
Originally posted by Sinious
Except this one: Anakin Skywalker and his prophecy are still the center dynamic of Star Wars. Even the sequels are a mere aftermath of his story. GL who not only created SW but also wrote that specific story clearly has a right to bring explanations on it. Palpatine is blatantly meant to be the ultimate villain of SW as he is the source of evil in Anakin's story. The fact that Anakin was needed in Palpatine's time is not a coincidence.Certain technological advancements might have been made by the time of FO, but the Empire was still much bigger both military wise and in terms of how much of the galaxy it controlled. There is also the Kylo - Vader dynamic, and Kylo is far from being the bigger & badder Vader. In fact, it's the opposite. So, I'm not sure what you're on about when you say a stronger big bad is in the recipe.
The theme of the new movie was literally "let the past die". Kylo destroyed the helmet symbolizing him being over Darth Vader. And we know that both Rey and Kylo have potential that's superior to Vader and Luke. Potential they'll eventually tap into.
Originally posted by Galan007
Based on what evidence?
His superiority in the force as is evidenced by him contacting Palpatine and the Acolytes of the Beyond from the Unknown Regions/tapping into Vader's memories without him realizing it. I know you don't believe this, but if you've been keeping up with my posts, it's fairly obvious this was the evidence I was using to suggest his superiority.
Unless the statements Lucas made have been directly contradicted/redacted by Disney canon, they are just as valid now as they were then.Keep in mind, GL's works(ie. Episodes I-VI + TCW Seasons 1-6) still represent the large majority of SW-canon.
You don't need to "contradict" an opinion. Anyone who cares about star wars would think twice before making a villain more powerful than Sidious, because it undermines the original trilogy. Not necesarily true, especially with the rebranding of the legends continuity, and them wanting to make everything seem bigger and better.
Originally posted by ZentrexSo your stance is essentially: "Snoke may have been contacting Sheev from the Unknown Regions(which still ISN'T proven, btw), therefore his force-lightning must be superior!!!!"
His superiority in the force as is evidenced by him contacting Palpatine and the Acolytes of the Beyond from the Unknown Regions/tapping into Vader's memories without him realizing it. I know you don't believe this, but if you've been keeping up with my posts, it's fairly obvious this was the evidence I was using to suggest his superiority.
Do I really have to explain why that 'logic' is horribly fallacious..?
Originally posted by ZentrexExcept statements made by Lucas himself(that have not been directly contradicted by Disney canon) aren't just 'opinion'. They're canon fact.
You don't need to "contradict" an opinion.
Why? It is already too one-sided with canon Sidious.
Originally posted by ZentrexSo, no counters to the fact that the Empire > FO, and who cares if Kylo is over Vader? My point stands about their dynamic.
The theme of the new movie was literally "let the past die". Kylo destroyed the helmet symbolizing him being over Darth Vader.
Btw, I know this is hard for you, but here is further proof of how badly inferior the FO is to the Empire not just in numbers, but also in quality of personnel (thanks to Gideon for the tweet):
And we know that both Rey and Kylo have potential that's superior to Vader and Luke.Proof?