Originally posted by Mindset
WS could beat Cap though, even if I would give Cap the edge more times than not.
According to Cap fanboys, Steve always holds back against Bucky, even in situations where it would be completely nonsensical, in terms of narrative, for him to do so.
I have even seen some argue that Steve was holding back to the point where he let Bucky overpower and throw him down the elevator shaft in CA:CW, even though his entire aim was to prevent berserk Bucky from hurting more people, something he can't do from the bottom of said shaft. I mean it is one thing to say Steve wasn't trying to kill him (because he obviously wasn't, but then Bucky's own agenda was mostly getting out of the building), but to argue that he wasn't putting all his effort into stopping/incapacitating him is retarded.
Yet I have seen Cap fanboys make that exact argument before, because they can't stand the idea of Steve coming out second best in a head-to-head with Bucky.
Originally posted by Mindset
WS could beat Cap though, even if I would give Cap the edge more times than not.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
According to Cap fanboys, Steve always holds back against Bucky, even in situations where it would be completely nonsensical, in terms of narrative, for him to do so.I have even seen some argue that Steve was holding back to the point where he let Bucky overpower and throw him down the elevator shaft in CA:CW, even though his entire aim was to prevent berserk Bucky from hurting more people, something he can't do from the bottom of said shaft. I mean it is one thing to say Steve wasn't trying to kill him (because he obviously wasn't, but then Bucky's own agenda was mostly getting out of the building), but to argue that he wasn't putting all his effort into stopping/incapacitating him is retarded.
Yet I have seen Cap fanboys make that exact argument before, because they can't stand the idea of Steve coming out second best in a head-to-head with Bucky.
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Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
According to Cap fanboys, Steve always holds back against Bucky, even in situations where it would be completely nonsensical, in terms of narrative, for him to do so.I have even seen some argue that Steve was holding back to the point where he let Bucky overpower and throw him down the elevator shaft in CA:CW, even though his entire aim was to prevent berserk Bucky from hurting more people, something he can't do from the bottom of said shaft. I mean it is one thing to say Steve wasn't trying to kill him (because he obviously wasn't, but then Bucky's own agenda was mostly getting out of the building), but to argue that he wasn't putting all his effort into stopping/incapacitating him is retarded.
Yet I have seen Cap fanboys make that exact argument before, because they can't stand the idea of Steve coming out second best in a head-to-head with Bucky.
Well when steve does better against Ironman, thanos, spidetman and in general just having better feats than bucky then it's hard to come to any other conclusion.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Well when steve does better against Ironman, thanos, spidetman and in general just having better feats than bucky then it's hard to come to any other conclusion.
- Bucky never had any solo H2H against Thanos. Also, unless you think Steve can casually pin Spiderman down (which Thanos does on Titan), casually necksnap Loki (which he does early in the film), casually tear Tony's nano-suit helmet off (during their duel on Titan), or casually tear the Mind Stone out of Vision's vibranium head (which he does in Wakanda), and that Corvus Glaive (who had Steve pinned to the ground a bit earlier) is stronger than Thanos, the Titan clearly wasn't using all his strength against him. Especially, considering two years earlier, Steve couldn't overpower Buck's metal arm. He'd have to have gone from below Bucky's metal arm to basically near-Hulk level in the space of two years, somehow.
- Bucky barely fought against Spiderman, and only got pinned when he shielded Falcon from a hit.
- Tony was very clearly not going as hard against Steve as he was against Bucky. For example, Tony was shooting cuffs at Steve, while shooting missiles at Bucky.
But wait, so are you actually saying Steve was holding back during the Civil War scene I mentioned? As you say it's "hard to come to any other conclusion". So, you're arguing Steve is an idiot who let Bucky throw him down an elevator shaft despite that being completely counterproductive to his agenda at the time?
I consider Bucky throwing Steve down that elevator shaft PIS though. I mean yeah, Bucky's arm had already shown itself to be strong enough to overpower Steve's both arms back in TWS, but I have a hard time accepting that it can overpower Steve to the extent that he goes flying through elevator doors hard enough to knock him out. Especially since it flies completely against other showings. Heck Steve managed to catch a punch from the arm with both hands just before that.
Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
I consider Bucky throwing Steve down that elevator shaft PIS though. I mean yeah, Bucky's arm had already shown itself to be strong enough to overpower Steve's both arms back in TWS, but I have a hard time accepting that it can overpower Steve to the extent that he goes flying through elevator doors hard enough to knock him out. Especially since it flies completely against other showings. Heck Steve managed to catch a punch from the arm with both hands just before that.
Catching a punch isn't the same thing as maintaining extended effort against it though. Also, while fighting the German Spec Ops guys, Bucky was able to force Steve down with the robo arm pretty easily as well, IIRC.
Regardless, the point is that Steve was shown to be below the robo arm, consistently, across both films, taking place years apart. Steve suddenly matching Thanos two years later (who we see overpower the Hulk, and who accomplished the vast majority of the feats I listed, if not all, with one arm) is hugely inconsistent, and itself is either PIS, or Thanos wasn't trying his hardest. And this is not some slight against Steve. Thanos is just insanely strong. I mean the guy literally pulled the Mind Stone out of Vision's forehead using only three fingers.