Cable vs Captain America

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I'm just saying, Pete caught bucky's metal arm punch no problem and cap was able to power through and beat Pete. And was going toe to toe with with glaive for a bit despite him being strong enough to break through vision's vibranium body. Steve has been consistently getting stronger with each movie he appears in.

Corvus used an alien weapon to pierce Vision. He didn't do it via brute strength alone. And, again, Corvus had Steve pinned to the ground when they fought 1-on-1, with Steve seemingly unable to break his grip. Cap also didn't use brute strength alone against Peter. He used leverage and their difference in body mass to get Pete off balance. Plus, that showing is inconsistent with what we have been shown across multiple films, considering we've seen Bucky's robo arm overpower Steve on several occasions by now (including the same film), and seen Spiderman perform things like the ferry feat in Homecoming.

But if you want to take one showing with Spiderman over multiple showings where Steve gets overpowered by the robo arm, that's your choice.

Plus Vision was beating the shit out of Corvus when he threatened Wanda, and lost only when Corvus redirected Vision's stone beam on Vision himself. And this was after he had stabbed Vision with the spear twice

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

But if you want to take one showing with Spiderman over multiple showings where Steve gets overpowered by the robo arm, that's your choice.

I dunno, if Spidey keeps getting easily overpowered by other heroes, then at some point we might have to say him owning Bucky was the one off good showing.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dunno, if Spidey keeps getting easily overpowered by other heroes, then at some point we might have to say him owning Bucky was the one off good showing.

Which heroes "easily overpowered" him in terms of strength? Star-Lord did not overpower him. He used his alien tech to restrain Peter. Cap didn't easily overpower him. He dropped a jet bridge on him. We're not debating combat competence right now. We're debating actual strength level. Hell, according to the Russos on the audio commentary, as well as an interview with the one VFX guy, the reason Spiderman is one of the last to fade is due to his power level and him actively resisting the snap.

https://screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-spider-man-death-vfx/

https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-infinity-war-heres-why-spider-man-took-longer-to-disappear-than-everyone-else/

Cap was holding back against Thanos.

Well you have cap beating spiderman, and then you also have iron man telling spiderman that cap could beat him. So that's at least two movies showing that cap>spider man. Then you also scenes with black panther being able to handle bucky easily and cap being portrayed as on or above his level. Plus the just plain better feats of strengths cap has like holding back a helicopter and throwing a motorcycle through a truck. Bucky seems like cap's outlier.

We've already had this exact same conversation regarding BP vs WS in other threads before. Black Panther was literally trying to kill Bucky. He was not trying to kill Cap. Bucky was always either trying to reason with him or escape somewhere else (on the run from the Spec Ops, then escaping the building in WS mode, then trying to get to the secret Hydra base with Cap). Plus, he was essentially weaponless, as the suit showed capable of somehow countering his robo arm more than once.

And as had already been mentioned, Cap beat Spiderman via environmental exploitation. Not because of outclassing him in stats.

The Russos themselves described Steve and Bucky as "equally potent", "doppelgangers" etc. during TWS audio commentary.

And of course Steve is going to end up with a lot more flashy feats, as he's had more than twice as much screen time as Bucky has.

Like I said, you can believe whatever you want. But don't expect others to do so.

So when buck isn't trying to kill panther, it makes sense he doesn't try as hard as the blood thirsty revenge cat, but when the same logic applies to steve not wanting to kill his mind controlled best friend, we ignore it?

And Tony specifically told Pete that steve could play him out any time he wanted. And steve wins their tug of war when he goes for his shield.

I don't put a lot of weight on what a director says after the fact. Show don't tell, ya know.

You believe what ever you want, but evidence shows cap is consistently getting stronger and should be stronger by both bucky and cable

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Which heroes "easily overpowered" him in terms of strength? Star-Lord did not overpower him. He used his alien tech to restrain Peter. Cap didn't easily overpower him. He dropped a jet bridge on him. We're not debating combat competence right now. We're debating actual strength level. Hell, according to the Russos on the audio commentary, as well as an interview with the one VFX guy, the reason Spiderman is one of the last to fade is due to his power level and him actively resisting the snap.

https://screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-spider-man-death-vfx/

https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-infinity-war-heres-why-spider-man-took-longer-to-disappear-than-everyone-else/

Well thats interesting about his power level.

But what I meant in terms of combat feats. If we start to go the route of talking consistency, it doesnt look good for Spidey at the moment (for 1vs 1s).

But obviously his strength is undeniable - Ferry feat.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

And as had already been mentioned, Cap beat Spiderman via environmental exploitation. Not because of outclassing him in stats.

I dont think thats a fair justification. It wasnt like Revenge of the Sith with Obi-Wan having the high ground. Thats an example of clear environmental context, that doesnt really show the winner necessarily being the superior combatant.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
This isnt the Off-Topic Circle Jerk Quanchi. In other words, keep your shit in your ass!

😂

Originally posted by FrothByte
Only a complete idiot would think IM was going all out against Cap in CW.

Again, Cap has gotten hit by firearms and weapons before. He's not invincible.

Only a complete idiot would think Captain America was going all out at the end of WS.

That doesn't translate in Cable winning! If it's true that many other beings have disarmed Cap, they haven't defeated him. Plus, this beings are above Cable's league.

It's simple, Cap will close the distance with Cable rendering his weapon useless and turning the fight into a H2H close quarters, where Cap would obliterate.

Pretty simple.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
So when buck isn't trying to kill panther, it makes sense he doesn't try as hard as the blood thirsty revenge cat, but when the same logic applies to steve not wanting to kill his mind controlled best friend, we ignore it?

So, you are just going to straight-up strawman me now? I literally said that saying Cap was not trying to kill him is perfectly reasonable. The argument was that he would not intentionally let himself get overpowered. That =/= killing Bucky. Seriously, I really don't get what's so hard to understand.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dont think thats a fair justification. It wasnt like Revenge of the Sith with Obi-Wan having the high ground. Thats an example of clear environmental context, that doesnt really show the winner necessarily being the superior combatant.

I can't believe I have to say this again. I am not discussing who is a more capable combatant right now, as I have said repeatedly. Steve is clearly a more skilled and tactical combatant, hence exploiting the environment to quickly end the fight. But he did not win because he is stronger, faster, tougher etc.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
So when buck isn't trying to kill panther, it makes sense he doesn't try as hard as the blood thirsty revenge cat, but when the same logic applies to steve not wanting to kill his mind controlled best friend, we ignore it?

There's no proof that Cap wasn't going all out against Bucky in the bridge fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's no proof that Cap wasn't going all out against Bucky in the bridge fight.

Actually there is. When cap is on the boat at the beginning, one of the pirates he gets in a fight with calls steve out for holding back too much. Steve then downs him pretty quickly. This suggests steve usually does hold back pretty significantly at the start of any fight unless he's positive his opponent could take the punishment.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Actually there is. When cap is on the boat at the beginning, one of the pirates he gets in a fight with calls steve out for holding back too much. Steve then downs him pretty quickly. This suggests steve usually does hold back pretty significantly at the start of any fight unless he's positive his opponent could take the punishment.

So you're saying Cap has no qualms knifing opponents in the back but somehow decides to hold back when fighting h2h?

Also, can you quote the exact words of that pirate you're referring to, because I don't think I recall this conversation.

Yes

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's no proof that Cap wasn't going all out against Bucky in the bridge fight.

What the hell son!?

The entirety of CA:WS was about Steve trying to reason with Bucky! He even ended up saving Bucky's ass and almost sacrificing his by the end of the movie!

Should Cap have fought Bucky the way he fought IM in CW, Bucky would have been obliterated.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Yes

That's illogical. Also, please provide a quote of that pirate you mentioned, as I don't think that's what he actually said.