Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by Smurph
that's the sort of flawed math that comes from fans overanalyzing.

We don't really know how range scales with force power. Eg, Emma is a planetary-ish level telepath, but Xavier has multiple feats of reaching the Shi'ar Galaxy. We know Xavier is much stronger than Emma but we couldn't do a 1:1 comparison based on their distance feats to say that X is billions of times stronger than her.

That's how feats work though.

If Cassandra Cain dances around bullets matrix style and Lady Shiva does not, Cass is Flash to Shiva's street level speed, regardless of being billed as equals in comic.

Originally posted by cdtm
That's how feats work though.

If Cassandra Cain dances around bullets matrix style and Lady Shiva does not, Cass is Flash to Shiva's street level speed, regardless of being billed as equals in comic.

Comparing speed to speed is one thing, but when we use tk distance to compare power, there's a change in units. We don't know whether the relationship between "power with the force" and "max force choke distance" is roughly linear or exponential.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
It's funny Palpatine shares so many parallels to Thanos and Vader to Doom.

but so much cooler

Originally posted by Smurph
the problem is your analogy.

Comparing speed to speed is one thing, but when we use tk distance to compare power, there's a change in units. We don't know whether the relationship between "power with the force" and "max force choke distance" is roughly linear or exponential.

On top of this, there is a skill component, especially with BS mental powers. Emma Frost defeated Rachel with the Phoenix because of skill, as an example.

Then there are things like willpower etc. I wouldn't be too surprised if say Hal or Bruce could resist the Force through sheer willpower.

Originally posted by ODG
Vader is a direct ripoff of Doom.

Originally posted by Smurph
the problem is your analogy.

Comparing speed to speed is one thing, but when we use tk distance to compare power, there's a change in units. We don't know whether the relationship between "power with the force" and "max force choke distance" is roughly linear or exponential.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
On top of this, there is a skill component, especially with BS mental powers. Emma Frost defeated Rachel with the Phoenix because of skill, as an example.

In SW, for example, something like a 2x(or less) difference in power between opponents would equate to a vast and absolutely insurmountable difference(assuming they had equal training)... But give the raw power/potential of, say, Anakin to an untrained youngling, and even a feeb like Coleman Trebor would f*ck him up. As Luke stated: "Talent without training is nothing."

That being said, a Force-choke is TK-based, but the user is actually just manipulating the the Force around the target's trachea, and causing that specific area to constrict -- they aren't hurling a massive TK wave from point A to point B, which ultimately throat-punches the target or whatever. So while it absolutely requires a certain level of power to Force-choke an opponent from galactic(or even planetary) range, one's overall skill with, and mastery of, the Force also plays a huge part regarding the distance at which their power can be successfully applied... And that is a pretty important point to consider, as I'd wager that the gap in skill/mastery between Palpatine and Vader FAR exceeds the gap in raw power between them.

And then on TOP of that, their mental state/emotions at the time play a factor as well. Especially with Darksiders (one can argue this is where skill comes into play).

but in star wars wouldn't skill and mastery factor into their overall power anyway?

In a way, I guess?

Superior skill/mastery just helps them to use the Force better in general. Like I mentioned above: if you have two Force users with equal power, but character 'A' has far more training/knowledge/expertise than character 'B', then the former is going to stomp the latter every single time -- there's a lot more to factor in than *just* powerlevels.

I believe that analogy loosely applies to Palpatine and Vader as well. I'd say the gap between their raw power is likely a good bit less than 2x(even in Legends there was only a 20% difference between them, for example.) However, Palpatine knows how to use the full breadth of his abilities in ways that Vader does not(or cannot), and as such, the gap between their raw power *seems* much larger than it actually is... But again, we can't attribute that solely to Palpatine's power advantage, but moreso to his far superior mastery of the dark side.

Look at Obi-Wan and Anakin and their various meetings.

Plus, Star Wars is chock full of 'techniques' that one is supposed to learn and master. It's why they get trained in the first place.

Anakin as a kid had a higher midichlorian count than Yoda, after all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transformers/comments/fpy9xk/to_all_the_thundercracker_fans_he_was_not_only/

Originally posted by -Pr-
Look at Obi-Wan and Anakin and their various meetings.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Plus, Star Wars is chock full of 'techniques' that one is supposed to learn and master. It's why they get trained in the first place.

Anakin as a kid had a higher midichlorian count than Yoda, after all.

Raw power/potential is worthless if you don't know how to fully tap into it. Unlike, say, Hulk, who can instantly become super strong by just poofing into a green form, the Force generally takes decades for even the most powerful Jedi/Sith to begin to master... But even then, you can only go so far depending on who(or what) you've been learning from. That's why Palpatine began hoarding all the Force-related texts/artifacts he could get his hands on after RotS -- it was the only way for him to continue expanding his abilities. And it clearly worked very well, given that he always maintained clear superiority over Vader(whose abilities also increased over the years, though obviously not to the same extent. Palpatine made sure of that.)

Hell, Luke basically did the same thing after RotJ(albeit for different reasons.) There weren't many Jedi left around who could still teach him, so he had to look elsewhere.

There's a reason the Holocrons are so sought after.

Exactly. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

Raw power/potential is worthless if you don't know how to fully tap into it. Unlike, say, Hulk, who can instantly become super strong by just poofing into a green form, the Force generally takes decades for even the most powerful Jedi/Sith to begin to master... But even then, you can only go so far depending on who(or what) you've been learning from. That's why Palpatine began hoarding all the Force-related texts/artifacts he could get his hands on after RotS -- it was the only way for him to continue expanding his abilities. And it clearly worked very well, given that he always maintained clear superiority over Vader(whose abilities also increased over the years, though obviously not to the same extent. Palpatine made sure of that.)

Hell, Luke basically did the same thing after RotJ(albeit for different reasons.) There weren't many Jedi left around who could still teach him, so he had to look elsewhere.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There's a reason the Holocrons are so sought after.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i've never understood the purpose of holocrons in star wars tbh. like you can just watch a dead person's video to increase your force power? seems like a stretch. :/

Holocrons act in a similar capacity for Force-users. Many are loaded with high-level(and often forgotten) abilities/knowledge, which can allow the viewer to level-up considerably as a result of their teachings. There is effectively no difference between learning skills from a living person, and learning them from a Holocron -- the biggest distinction is that Holocrons typically cut out most of the "filler", and get right to the point(s).

I like to think the holocrons are just fitness videos so the Jedi get bigger arms and abs