Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Plus, I don't think it necessarily supports ODG's conclusion here tbh.
Sure, the Metaverse(the main universe) creates altnernate universes to preserve every era of Superman in the *main* universe, doesn't mean that the history in the main universe suddenly gets moved to another universe(especiall after Death Metal when all eras of history are restored)
For example, the N52 history, it gets preserved in another universe in DDC
https://ibb.co/x1SbKdG

But DC makes it very clear that the N52 history is still part of the main universe Superman's history
https://ibb.co/T2xWMjq
https://ibb.co/t8VcmqN
https://ibb.co/8DCczLW

And in the recent Blue Beetle run(after Death Metal) also refers both Pre-crisis and N52 comics
https://ibb.co/sP68DZV

Originally posted by ODG
This isn't a shocking concept that we must intuit. Indeed, in the marquis event, Doomsday Clock, DC exhaustively portrayed the on-panel process by which this retcon process works. Retconned events now existentially manifest themselves within distinct alternate universe timelines. So the retconned histories no longer apply to current character depictions but they are "preserved" in their distinct alternate universes.

That's the most honest reading for simple comics reading. And that comes from DC itself. Canonicity-wise, canonically speaking.

But KMC debate-wise? That's a different matter. It's an obvious trend on KMC to ignore such on-panel retcons for debate purposes. Anything post-Crisis is citable for KMC debate purposes. But that's just for the conveniency of KMC debates. It doesn't actually track from the comics themselves.

Now, during Dark Nights: Death Metal and its wake, it appeared to be declared that there would be a "single combined timeline". BUt that never came to fruition. And if you read published articles, it's obvious why. They tried and it just didn't work. But fort KMC debate purposes, I don't need to refute writer interviews with other writer interviews.

KMC debates comics. Either debate the comics or don't.

I remember when Donald Blake was shown to have power as a creation of Odin, thus contradicting all of those early tales where he was a wimpy limpy human. Rage was not pleased.

Does this retcon mean all of Thor's early stories are moot or invalid? No.

Then they showed that Odin DOESN'T need to sleep to pass his power on to Thor. Another retcon. Again, this doesn't invalidate decades of comics. Rage and Sin....well, raged.

Then Mjolnir melted in the Sun. Thor was burning up etc. No invalidation. That's just a few contradictions - but it doesn't take over ENTIRE storyli, just patches over a couple of things here and there. Thor was still cast down to Earth to learn humility - but he did so in a vessel that had a portion of the Odinforce in it, he still has all of his striking feats with Mjolnir - but Mjolnir was sentient and has the Mother storm in it etc.

That's.....what's happening here with DC, no? It's all canon, EXCEPT for that patches that aren't?

Bottom line (let's not be coy and demure here), for abhi and qwerty, until PreCrisis feats are EXPLICITLY retconned ("he never actually sneezed a planet!"😉 it's canon.

Originally posted by ODG
So instead of whining about uncontroversial platitudes, please summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity. Because your prior arguments go waaay past the above. And that is precisely what I am bearing down on.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I give you answers but you just simply don't accept them.
It really has nothing to say at this point, since it's very obvious that you don't have any explicit proofs to support your claims, only some arbitrary assumptions

The assumptions that can be easily explained as wrtiers just ignore some storyline in order to tell a good story. See what Snyder said
Or another official source, in the licensed bio that says all past iterations of DC character continuity were housed in one continuity
https://ibb.co/9vw1Rx7
Then says despite the characters remember their different past versions, writers can concern on good stories, rather than a new continuity reset would exclusively replace and render obsolete the previous one
https://ibb.co/Hrj2MmC

^ So you will not or, cannot, summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity. That's on you, pal. Way to stand behind your personal convictions.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I remember when Donald Blake was shown to have power as a creation of Odin, thus contradicting all of those early tales where he was a wimpy limpy human. Rage was not pleased.

Does this retcon mean all of Thor's early stories are moot or invalid? No.

Then they showed that Odin DOESN'T need to sleep to pass his power on to Thor. Another retcon. Again, this doesn't invalidate decades of comics. Rage and Sin....well, raged.

Then Mjolnir melted in the Sun. Thor was burning up etc. No invalidation. That's just a few contradictions - but it doesn't take over ENTIRE storyli, just patches over a couple of things here and there. Thor was still cast down to Earth to learn humility - but he did so in a vessel that had a portion of the Odinforce in it, he still has all of his striking feats with Mjolnir - but Mjolnir was sentient and has the Mother storm in it etc.

So how drunk are you? drunk

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I remember when Donald Blake was shown to have power as a creation of Odin, thus contradicting all of those early tales where he was a wimpy limpy human. Rage was not pleased.

Does this retcon mean all of Thor's early stories are moot or invalid? No.

Then they showed that Odin DOESN'T need to sleep to pass his power on to Thor. Another retcon. Again, this doesn't invalidate decades of comics. Rage and Sin....well, raged.

Then Mjolnir melted in the Sun. Thor was burning up etc. No invalidation. That's just a few contradictions - but it doesn't take over ENTIRE storyli, just patches over a couple of things here and there. Thor was still cast down to Earth to learn humility - but he did so in a vessel that had a portion of the Odinforce in it, he still has all of his striking feats with Mjolnir - but Mjolnir was sentient and has the Mother storm in it etc.

That's.....what's happening here with DC, no? It's all canon, EXCEPT for that patches that aren't?

Bottom line (let's not be coy and demure here), for abhi and qwerty, until PreCrisis feats are EXPLICITLY retconned ("he never actually sneezed a planet!"😉 it's canon.

Originally posted by ODG
^ So you will not or, cannot, summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity. That's on you, pal.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I don't remember there are rules that say just because there are contradictions, then the entire era history is invalidated or something

You don't need a KMC rule to announce or double-down on the plainly obvious.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Why should I do this, when the writer(Snyder) or the official sources say it doesn't have to, since it doesn't change the fact it's a combined single timeline

But it's ok if you won't summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity.

In all politeness and courtesy, we can agree to disagree. Ok? 👆

Originally posted by ODG
There aren't such precisely focused KMC rules because when on-panel retcons occur that completely invalidate prior depictions, it's obvious to everyone, at least to those who aren't self-stymied by their own bias distracted by their own preconceptions.

You don't need a KMC rule to announce or double-down on the plainly obvious. Well, one reason might be that the actual compilation of 3+ years of DC publishing utterly contradict the hopes/promises of outdated writer interviews and ads.

But it's ok if you won't summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity.

In all politeness and courtesy, we can agree to disagree. Ok? 👆

I mean, you already have a writer say it both(like two different past versions) are true, both can be referred. And you've official source says that All past iterations of DC character continuity were simultaneously true, real, and viable, housed in one vast continuity

Yeah, it seems we both can't change our opinions about this topic(single combined continuity), so it seems reasonable to just leave it as agree to disagree

Originally posted by ODG
^ So you will not or, cannot, summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity. That's on you, pal. Way to stand behind your personal convictions. Bruh, even though I'm 12 beers in, this be some random a$$ rambling.

So how drunk are you? drunk

I thought it wasn't rambling /shrug

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, I think retcons or writers simply ignore certain elements to tell a story is common in comics. For both Marvel and DC, like your example, and my and abhi Superman origins example, contradictions happen all this time.
I don't remember there are rules that say just because there are contradictions, then the entire era history is invalidated or something

Pretty much. It's a patchwork of a story where certain newly told elements retcon/outright contradict old stories. 5% is new.

Doesn't mean the other 95% never happened.

^ Shut up and/or drink more, plz.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Certain retcons occur that will invalidate certain depictions, doesn't mean the entire history would be invalidated though.

Now if you ever want to actually constructively debate this notion with me? Then embrace your theory and summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity. If you do so, I'll listen and respond.

Until then, agree to disagree. 👆

Originally posted by ODG
^ Shut up and/or drink more, plz. And by such standard, random easter egg allusions will not wholesale validate/restore the entirety of pre-Crisis history depictions either. Especially in the face of active retcons that are told across issues-long series currently.

Now if you ever want to actually constructively debate this notion with me? Then embrace your theory and summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity. If you do so, I'll listen and respond.

Until then, agree to disagree. 👆

So you can say you can provide certain retcons in here and there, and I also can bring up references to pre-crisis(or all other eras, I mean, the Death Metal says all eras are canon so it isn't just confined in a single era). But only of us can give explicitly proofs that support the claims

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But the Death Metal provides on-panel statements that validate/restore the entirety of Pre-Crisis history, no?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Like I said multiple times, that seems a very important difference between your and my positions.

I mean... I'm pretty sure it will only serve to reveal how absurd your interpretation is in the face of current DC comics. But maybe you can prove me wrong. So go ahead.

Originally posted by ODG
Which subsequently proved to be empty notions if you read the next 3+ years of DC publications.

Originally posted by ODG
Then embrace your theory and summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity. It might prove to enlighten me?

I mean... I'm pretty sure it will only serve to reveal how absurd your interpretation is in the face of current DC comics. But maybe you can prove me wrong. So go ahead.

It seems that I've already proven my position, the question is you seem to not accept it.

^ Bruh, what are you blabbing and prevaricating around? Just summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity.

I just want to know how sincerely you embrace your own notions and how they would work out beyond vague platitudes.

I mean, it’s not like I haven’t asked like 3-4x already. It’s not like your reticence doesn’t preface what absurdities would surely follow.

Surely not. 👆

Originally posted by ODG
^ Bruh, what are you blabbing and prevaricating around? Just summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity.

I just want to know how sincerely you embrace your own notions and how they would work out beyond vague platitudes.

I mean, it’s not like I haven’t asked like 3-4x already. It’s not like your reticence doesn’t preface what absurdities would surely follow.

Surely not. 👆

Originally posted by ODG
Goddamn. Do we know who shoved your misshapen head up your bloody butt?

I couldn't possibly take credit for it given I put you on ignore for 10+ years. Which KMC poster(s) did this to you? Tell us, please. I might want to give them a trophy. Maybe even a reach around! Seriously, who reduced you to such a lowly pathetic state like this?

I mean, I tried polite/constructive discussion but this response is so factually offensive, I think any attempted geniality is wasted.

As usual, chickenshit liar goes on an abusive tirade once asked to prove his claims.

Concession accepted, again.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But the Death Metal provides on-panel statements that validate/restore the entirety of Pre-Crisis history, no?
Like I said multiple times, that seems a very important difference between your and my positions.

So you can say you can provide certain retcons in here and there, and I also can bring up references to pre-crisis(or all other eras, I mean, the Death Metal says all eras are canon so it isn't just confined in a single era). But only of us can give explicitly proofs that support the claims

I would take that as the starting point.

Then every single retcon since then, or contradiction, then overlays on top of it. But the central premise still remains - that Pre Crisis is canon to current, EXCEPT where it is retconned.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I would take that as the starting point.

Then every single retcon since then, or contradiction, then overlays on top of it. But the central premise still remains - that Pre Crisis is canon to current, EXCEPT where it is retconned.

Pretty much, Pre-Crisis is canon to current continuity even though some retcons/contradications still can happen
Basically just like a lot of DC/Marvel comics where the some details in old comics get revamped as time goes by, but not necessarily makes whole eras uncanon

Originally posted by ODG
^ Bruh, what are you blabbing and prevaricating around? Just summarize Wonder Woman's career during WW2 and the Justice Society in current continuity.

I just want to know how sincerely you embrace your own notions and how they would work out beyond vague platitudes.

I mean, it’s not like I haven’t asked like 3-4x already. It’s not like your reticence doesn’t preface what absurdities would surely follow.

Surely not. 👆

From Wonder Woman 750, written by Scott Snyder. Now what, you idiot? You move on to another idiotic question?

Posting scans again.