Originally posted by BruhMan"Only Superman can do it" is put quite an emphasis on in the team books -- hell, Final Crisis is literally all about that [and I'm not referring just to Superman Beyond]. Just last issues of JL we have him directly shown how he compared to the rest against Lex, and it forced the latter [who was one a one-shotting spree] to tap in even more power to compete. And this is one of the most recurring themes in all of the books -- what happend when Darkseid came? Batman concluded they need to rescue Superman from Apokolips to stand a chance. What happens when a shadow moon is moving to destroy the Earth? They're all helpless -- except Superman, who eyeballs it. What happens when you need somebody to go to the center of the Earth and withstand planet-shaking bombs? Only Superman can, explicitly. etc. Countless examples. Cosmic being like World Forger take him off the board out of fear. Darkseid comes when he's not around, then puts an emphasis on it. Manhattan, after analyzing the metaverse's defenses, concludes he's the biggest one. Just last month we had OWAW-in-one-comic in Up In the Sky where he solos robots that literally beat the entire DC Earth. You have the timeless in Bryan Hitch's Justice League. There's a shitload of examples here, tbh. But they have to tone it down, otherwise it gets into parody, so you have writers [like Mcduffie] admitting that they nerf him to have a plot. But when shit goes down, it gets fairly obvious what's what.
It should be noted how rarely he's seen as above his peers...when he's actually among them in team situations. He gets the opposite of what Batman gets. Far more impressive alone than in a team book. But moments when his peers look to him when all else has failed...which are rare in canon I'm pretty sure...are awesome when done well. Those moments are seen alot in animation tho.
Originally posted by Galan007It's amazing how much the lasso fluctuates.
JL #41 preview:
Originally posted by Philosophía
"Only Superman can do it" is put quite an emphasis on in the team books -- hell, Final Crisis is literally all about that [and I'm not referring just to Superman Beyond]. Just last issues of JL we have him directly shown how he compared to the rest against Lex, and it forced the latter [who was one a one-shotting spree] to tap in even more power to compete. And this is one of the most recurring themes in all of the books -- what happend when Darkseid came? Batman concluded they need to rescue Superman from Apokolips to stand a chance. What happens when a shadow moon is moving to destroy the Earth? They're all helpless -- except Superman, who eyeballs it. What happens when you need somebody to go to the center of the Earth and withstand planet-shaking bombs? Only Superman can, explicitly. etc. Countless examples. Cosmic being like World Forger take him off the board out of fear. Darkseid comes when he's not around, then puts an emphasis on it. Manhattan, after analyzing the metaverse's defenses, concludes he's the biggest one. Just last month we had OWAW-in-one-comic in Up In the Sky where he solos robots that literally beat the entire DC Earth. You have the timeless in Bryan Hitch's Justice League. There's a shitload of examples here, tbh. But they have to tone it down, otherwise it gets into parody, so you have writers [like Mcduffie] admitting that they nerf him to have a plot. But when shit goes down, it gets fairly obvious what's what.It's amazing how much the lasso fluctuates.
Yeah. Even the movies, for all their faults, brought up the whole "yeah, the bad guy will fight you guys, but he wants nothing to do with the Kryptonian".
Originally posted by Philosophía
For all its faults, the JL movie with the Superman vs Justice League scene and then how Superman does against Steppenwolf compared to the rest is fairly accurate.
I have mixed feelings about it. I think Superman should smack Steppenwolf around, sure, but Steppenwolf taking on half the League by himself? No thanks. Give him help. Let them have one each or something. Not enough comic movies have a team of good guys fighting a team of bad guys.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea but that's a huge problem. I like Superman to struggle not waltz thru the competition
I like a balance, tbh. Sometimes he should struggle. But sometimes he should stomp the shit out of people too.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
They both hold back just as much as Supes do. Nothing special
You could make the case for Spider-Man (but it would be tricky), but Hulk? Not a chance.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Holding back gets old though. Get a new trope
There are dozens of heroes that would become mass murderers if they stopped holding back.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaYeah, I was going to reply something like this. If you don't have Superman nerfed for team fights you get something like JL Superman who rendered the team up useless since he could have soloed the threat with minimal effort.
For all its faults, the JL movie with the Superman vs Justice League scene and then how Superman does against Steppenwolf compared to the rest is fairly accurate.
Originally posted by -Pr-
There are dozens of heroes that would become mass murderers if they stopped holding back.
That's why so many villains are just the heroes, but not holding back. Extremely similar powersets, but evil.
Zoom/Flash. Sinestro/GL. Superman/Zod/Bizarro/Preus. Fernus/J'onn. Wolverine/Sabertooth. Cap/Red Skull. Hulk/Abomination. The list goes on.
I think the difference is in how Marvel and DC treat their heroes. Superman is THE go to guy at the end of days. Marvel don't really have one, and part of that I guess could perhaps be due to the success of their movies.
'Oh you like Thor? Here's how awesome he is! Oh wait, you actually like Hulk? Well here's a scene of him being awesome*!!'
Whilst it gives a lot of feats all round, it actually dilutes their characters. Hulk looks great as he cracks Thor's skull, who looks great as he fights Galactus, who looks great as he eats the universe, whilst Gladiator looks great fighting Galactus, whilst Sentry casually fights him off, and Nova is too fast for him, but Surfer is just as fast etc etc etc.
Otoh, with DC - sure, they too have some instances. But if Batman can't think of a way to win, or Superman can't power his way out of something, it's not as if GL or Diana step up, or Shazam is the powerhouse, or Cyborg out strategises Bats. Its just DCs way.
*Awesome = big feats