AlbertojohnANVIL is a false flag poster or a shapeshifter.
He's able to assimilate any poster's tactics and he does this across multiple forums. His normal persona is Carver here. Over there it could be anyone. Just endlessly getting arguments answered so he can recycle them on another forum.
Whose side is he really on? Nobody knows. He lost everything, even his own name. All he can do is mimic magic now. His opinion is whoever he's copying.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So does this look familiar?Because it's direct copy paste of my argument.
Turns out our dear little AlbertoJohnAvil comes from spacebattles.
Enjoy as Albert steals your posts to spacebattles.
This is outright ridiculous. TERRIBLE. Nasty. Stanky. Outright disgusting.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Don't care. not spoonfeeding you, I've repeatedly told you what to do. You CAN read
Oh the irony of a plagiarist like yourself.
Few things
1. You are fcking stupid, as if someone here would not catch you plagerism from SB to here. Many people here have handles or visit there.
2. After you get caught you play a dumb fcking idiot and try and deny it.
3. You don’t actually have a argument. You are literally just copy and pasting other people’s writing.
No one can be this dumb except maybe you. So you are either just that dumb OR you are just a bullshit troller who’s got nothing better to do. Which still makes you worthless.
Originally posted by leonidas
😑that is precisely how i would answer each of those statements--in fact that is exactly how i've been arguing in this whole thread but i've been told, repeatedly--here and in other threads--that wf's multiverse was COMPLETE--an exact copy of the grand multiverse, with all the dimensions included. sooo... 👆
it's THIS part where we disagree--sort of:
Forger's Multiverse WAS complete, there's no reason to doubt that.
i agree 1000% it is OUTSIDE THE POSITIVE MATTER MULTIVERSE. but then so is the antimatter universe, and the dark multiverse. the map however, CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY shows that nil and the monitor sphere are WITHIN the bounds of the GREATER multiverse and are tucked neatly WITHIN the boundary of the source wall:
https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/Multiversity_Map_2400_53ee6b4c22d9a9.11031355.jpg
Well duh, but is fifth or sixth dimension inside the Source Wall on the map? No, they aren't.
You arguing that somehow fifth or sixth dimension are just part of the multiverse and hence can't be that big are just asinine.
i mean....how much more clear does it need to be? 😕
and we know the map IS being followed by snyder who has actually featured it TWICE--BOTH in the jl AND metal, so we know both snyder and morrison believe nil and the monitor sphere are tucked away WITHIN the source wall. not sure how you can debate that unless you're willing to say the map is wrong. if you are, you are simply not following the same basic cosmology as i am so we'll NEVER agree. /shrug
you can bring in info from different sources, but all along i've been referring to the jl arc and metal. i've said it a 100 times. the jld material COULD be seen to contradict some of the jl material, and i'm sure other books ALSO contradict it--i really hate that i read that 8 issue UNEXPECTED series. holy **** was that awful.... tbh, i wouldn't take anything that happened or was said in that series too seriously. the writers really didn't seem to have much of a clue about wtf was going on....i mean hawkman and firebrand were taking mandrakk on h2h! lol
anyway, tell me this: do you think the antimatter universe is within the boundary of the wall? why or why not?
Are we talking about fifth and sixth dimension or anti matter universe? Why this red herring?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Forger's Multiverse WAS complete, there's no reason to doubt that.
😐
you just said on the last page it was NOT complete! that it didn't include the dm, or the 5th or 6th! wth??
Well duh, but is fifth or sixth dimension inside the Source Wall on the map? No, they aren't.
not iyo. imo, they completely are.
You arguing that somehow fifth or sixth dimension are just part of the multiverse and hence can't be that big are just asinine.
😑
i legit have....NO idea what that sentence means. i've never argued about how big they are, only that they exist WITHIN THE WALL AS PARTS OF THE 3-PART MULTIVERSE. it's pretty blatantly obvious imo for the reasons i've stated. repeatedly.
Are we talking about fifth and sixth dimension or anti matter universe? Why this red herring? [/B]
lol
i wasn't talking about the 5th or 6th, i talking about the dark multiverse because you said the dm is OUTSIDE the wall so i was curious if you thought the AM universe was also outside. 👆
so i can keep it straight, you're telling me that there are THREE different definitions now for what separates the positive and dark multiverses--(1) in metal the whole series is about a MEMBRANE that separates them. to cross you just need the right frequency to do it. (2) you told me it's the WALL that separates them (according to jld). NOW (3)
you want me to believe the OVERVOID separates them (based on a piece of nonsensical dialogue from unexpected--a book that was cancelled after 8 issues because it was so bad.) and besides the DM, you even said NIL was outside the wall!
so, are YOU wrong about NIL, or is the MAP wrong??
in metal, the WHOLE STORY led up to destroying the wall. to say the WALL separates the 2 multiverses makes ZERO sense. here's a simple analogy--instead of multiverses let's use 2 cities. and instead of the wall, use an impassable bridge. so, the 2 cities go to war but can't use the bridge, so instead, they just.....FLY over the river and have their war! now, at the end of the story, when the war is done, at the very climax, what happens--they blow up the bridge!
WTF?? how does THAT make ANY form of narrative sense?? it doesn't. the clear intent is that the wall surrounds the ENTIRE 3-part multiverse.
i asked you about the antimatter universe because i was curious about your opinion. i figured you must believe the antimatter universe is outside as well, like the dm. that would make NO sense, but a lot of what you're suggesting makes no sense to me. proof that it IS within the walls is right in the jl book when mobius gets angry because the wall makes his realm redundant. of course that means i have to take what mobius said LITERALLY. mmm
but let's assume that unlike wf (lol), mobius ACTUALLY meant what he said, and both the positive and antimatter universes lay within the wall's boundary--it makes even LESS sense that the dm doesn't. suddenly, for no reason, snyder just left 1/3 of the 3-part multiverse free of the wall? huh? but yet you think it's still included in being judged? i don't get it.....
but about the 6th--explain this to me: what advantage is there to having the 6th OUTSIDE the bounds of the multiverse iyo? what purpose does it serve in the narrative? what can happen in the 6th because it's OUTSIDE the wall, that CAN'T happen if it were INSIDE the wall?
Originally posted by leonidas
😐you just said on the last page it was NOT complete! that it didn't include the dm, or the 5th or 6th! wth??
You misunderstood. It is complete with all three parts of the multiverse but not 5th or sixth dimension as they are not part of the multiverse.
not iyo. imo, they completely are.
Without any proof, your opinion is just an opinion.
😑
i legit have....NO idea what that sentence means. i've never argued about how big they are, only that they exist WITHIN THE WALL AS PARTS OF THE 3-PART MULTIVERSE. it's pretty blatantly obvious imo for the reasons i've stated. repeatedly.
Except they aren't. Not by any current depiction.
lol
i wasn't talking about the 5th or 6th, i talking about the dark multiverse because you said the dm is OUTSIDE the wall so i was curious if you thought the AM universe was also outside. 👆
so i can keep it straight, you're telling me that there are [b]THREE different definitions now for what separates the positive and dark multiverses--(1) in metal the whole series is about a MEMBRANE that separates them. to cross you just need the right frequency to do it. (2) you told me it's the WALL that separates them (according to jld). NOW (3)
you want me to believe the OVERVOID separates them (based on a piece of nonsensical dialogue from unexpected--a book that was cancelled after 8 issues because it was so bad.) and besides the DM, you even said NIL was outside the wall!
No, I said Nil was outside the multiverse, not outside the wall. And Metal confirmed that the membrane which separated the realms of the multiverse was source wall itself.
Why are you ignoring Unexpected because it's cancelled? That's some arbitrary rules right there.
so, are YOU wrong about NIL, or is the MAP wrong??
Or Thought Robot breached the wall from Nil and reached overvoid.
in metal, the WHOLE STORY led up to destroying the wall. to say the WALL separates the 2 multiverses makes ZERO sense. here's a simple analogy--instead of multiverses let's use 2 cities. and instead of the wall, use an impassable bridge. so, the 2 cities go to war but can't use the bridge, so instead, they just.....FLY over the river and have their war! now, at the end of the story, when the war is done, at the very climax, what happens--they blow up the bridge
That whole story was nonsense, you're getting it now? Proof is given though, it's the second time you're ignoring it in this post.
WTF?? how does THAT make ANY form of narrative sense?? it doesn't. the clear intent is that the wall surrounds the ENTIRE 3-part multiverse.
Take that to Snyder, I'm just going with what is there in the comic.
i asked you about the antimatter universe because i was curious about your opinion. i figured you must believe the antimatter universe is outside as well, like the dm. that would make NO sense, but a lot of what you're suggesting makes no sense to me. proof that it IS within the walls is right in the jl book when mobius gets angry because the wall makes his realm redundant. of course that means i have to take what mobius said LITERALLY. mmm
Maybe the new issue will show us where it is but AM universe is inside the wall.
but let's assume that unlike wf (lol), mobius ACTUALLY meant what he said, and both the positive and antimatter universes lay within the wall's boundary--it makes even LESS sense that the dm doesn't. suddenly, for no reason, snyder just left 1/3 of the 3-part multiverse free of the wall? huh? but yet you think it's still included in being judged? i don't get it.....
I don't get it either but it is what it is. I don't make my headcanon rule over actual comics.
but about the 6th--explain this to me: what advantage is there to having the 6th OUTSIDE the bounds of the multiverse iyo? what purpose does it serve in the narrative? what can happen in the 6th because it's OUTSIDE the wall, that CAN'T happen if it were INSIDE the wall? [/B]
I don't know. But its futile at this point, you're trying to mold it as you see fit instead of actually accepting what's on panel.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You misunderstood. It is complete with all three parts of the multiverse but not 5th or sixth dimension as they are not part of the multiverse.Without any proof, your opinion is just an opinion.
back atcha. 👆
Except they aren't. Not by any current depiction.
😂 based on your interpretation of the evidence, maybe. seems clear to me.
No, I said Nil was outside the multiverse, not outside the wall. And Metal confirmed that the membrane which separated the realms of the multiverse was source wall itself.
that is your single best piece of support to date. can't really explain that away.
Why are you ignoring Unexpected because it's cancelled? That's some arbitrary rules right there.
only because it doesn't fit with most of the other material, but like i said, maybe you ARE right. it makes no sense, in the light of metal and the jl, but if this thread has done anything, it's shown that dc is nearly as big a contradictory mess as marvel is.
Or Thought Robot breached the wall from Nil and reached overvoid.That whole story was nonsense, you're getting it now? Proof is given though, it's the second time you're ignoring it in this post.
lol cuz you never choose to ignore proof based on OTHER material shown.... when info is completely contradictory you HAVE to pick and choose, and i've said it 1000 times--i'm working with info presented via morrison and snyder, who seem to be leading the way in defining dc's eff'd up cosmology.
Take that to Snyder, I'm just going with what is there in the comic.
that's one of your problems--sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. individual comics tell different stories (as has been made obvious lately) so sometimes looking at the big picture is the only real way to try and figure out INTENT.
Maybe the new issue will show us where it is but AM universe is inside the wall.I don't get it either but it is what it is. I don't make my headcanon rule over actual comics.
I don't know. But its futile at this point, you're trying to mold it as you see fit instead of actually accepting what's on panel. [/B]
not at all. i'm simply sticking to what the vast majority of the MAIN stories involved are saying and not looking to pull contradictory info from all over--because there will ALWAYS be contradictory info. how many times have we been told there are 52 universes, yet in other books we see there are millions? purely contradictory info. there is NO WAY to create a completely unified picture, so we look for the biggest commonalities in the biggest books and build from there. at least imo.
you admit you can't make sense of it looking at it the way you do. from my perspective--minus a couple blips--it holds together neatly and well--in general. and my perspective is based purely on what has been shown in the key books. when you look too closely at comic books, things will ALWAYS ultimately fall apart. /shrug
if snyder were in front of you, and you asked him how many dimensions in the multiverse, you think he's ACTUALLY say 5?? (you think the 6th is outside, so he shouldn't count that...)
i'd bet you a million bucks he'd say 6, because the 6th is PART of the multiverse. it's the control room, the penthouse OF the multiverse. not sure that could be any more clear. anyway, nice to have a civil discussion for a change, though we still won't agree.
Originally posted by leonidas
back atcha. 👆😂 based on your interpretation of the evidence, maybe. seems clear to me.
that is your single best piece of support to date. can't really explain that away.
only because it doesn't fit with most of the other material, but like i said, maybe you ARE right. it makes no sense, in the light of metal and the jl, but if this thread has done anything, it's shown that dc is nearly as big a contradictory mess as marvel is.
lol cuz you never choose to ignore proof based on OTHER material shown.... when info is completely contradictory you HAVE to pick and choose, and i've said it 1000 times--i'm working with info presented via morrison and snyder, who seem to be leading the way in defining dc's eff'd up cosmology.
that's one of your problems--sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. individual comics tell different stories (as has been made obvious lately) so sometimes looking at the big picture is the only real way to try and figure out INTENT.
not at all. i'm simply sticking to what the vast majority of the MAIN stories involved are saying and not looking to pull contradictory info from all over--because there will ALWAYS be contradictory info. how many times have we been told there are 52 universes, yet in other books we see there are millions? purely contradictory info. there is NO WAY to create a completely unified picture, so we look for the biggest commonalities in the biggest books and build from there. at least imo.
you admit you can't make sense of it looking at it the way you do. from my perspective--minus a couple blips--it holds together neatly and well--in general. and my perspective is based purely on what has been shown in the key books. when you look too closely at comic books, things will ALWAYS ultimately fall apart. /shrug
if snyder were in front of you, and you asked him how many dimensions in the multiverse, you think he's ACTUALLY say 5?? (you think the 6th is outside, so he shouldn't count that...)
i'd bet you a million bucks he'd say 6, because the 6th is PART of the multiverse. it's the control room, the penthouse OF the multiverse. not sure that could be any more clear. anyway, nice to have a civil discussion for a change, though we still won't agree.
Hey I don't think you understand the dimensional numbering. The numbers don't just keep going up after each new dimension.
There are probably near infinite number of dimensions(3d) but only one 5D and 6D.
Originally posted by leonidas
back atcha. 👆
Back to me what exactly?
😂 based on your interpretation of the evidence, maybe. seems clear to me.
Because you're twisting the facts to fit your view.
that is your single best piece of support to date. can't really explain that away.
Yet you keep this up, I just don't understand what you think are doing here?
only because it doesn't fit with most of the other material, but like i said, maybe you ARE right. it makes no sense, in the light of metal and the jl, but if this thread has done anything, it's shown that dc is nearly as big a contradictory mess as marvel is.
Oh I agree. Snyder is trying to be Morrison, but only Morrison can be Morrison.
lol cuz you never choose to ignore proof based on OTHER material shown.... when info is completely contradictory you HAVE to pick and choose, and i've said it 1000 times--i'm working with info presented via morrison and snyder, who seem to be leading the way in defining dc's eff'd up cosmology.
That's from Snyder.
that's one of your problems--sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. individual comics tell different stories (as has been made obvious lately) so sometimes looking at the big picture is the only real way to try and figure out INTENT.
That's subjective. Hence why I don't insert my view in the comics.
not at all. i'm simply sticking to what the vast majority of the MAIN stories involved are saying and not looking to pull contradictory info from all over--because there will ALWAYS be contradictory info. how many times have we been told there are 52 universes, yet in other books we see there are millions? purely contradictory info. there is NO WAY to create a completely unified picture, so we look for the biggest commonalities in the biggest books and build from there. at least imo.
That's carver way. I take everything in account.
you admit you can't make sense of it looking at it the way you do. from my perspective--minus a couple blips--it holds together neatly and well--in general. and my perspective is based purely on what has been shown in the key books. when you look too closely at comic books, things will ALWAYS ultimately fall apart. /shrug
I never said I can't make sense of it. I just said its nonsense.
if snyder were in front of you, and you asked him how many dimensions in the multiverse, you think he's ACTUALLY say 5?? (you think the 6th is outside, so he shouldn't count that...)
i'd bet you a million bucks he'd say 6, because the 6th is PART of the multiverse. it's the control room, the penthouse OF the multiverse. not sure that could be any more clear. anyway, nice to have a civil discussion for a change, though we still won't agree.
That's just speculation though, I can't go on that.
Its nice for a change.
ok abhi, i think we're reached as much of an accord as we will on this particular topic. i think we NEED to use a wider view to take a look at what is intended, but admit that is subjective. i definitely don't think my pov is unreasonable though, by any stretch, but i can't say some of what you're saying is unreasonable either. i still fully disagree with your premise that the 5th and 6th exist outside the source wall, but can see why you think the dm is outside it. i still believe there is more evidence in general to suggest it IS part of the grand multiverse contained behind the wall, but....i wouldn't bet my life on it. hopefully it (and the other issues) will be clarified later.
i'll tell you one of the biggest issues for me--no where--and i mean NO WHERE--does it SAY (in exact words) that the dark multiverse exists beyond the wall.
all we're ever REALLY told is that beyond the wall is a mystery, or the source exists there. there is nothing DEFINITIVE, that doesn't have to be inferred by your side or my side of the argument. it's....weird, actually.
anyway, hopefully we'll learn something TRULY, and UNDENIABLY definitive as the story goes forward. then we can do this all over again. 👆
Three things that blow mind about this:
1. As far as I can follow, through their debate, Ahbi and Leo have uncovered major glitches in DC cosmology
2. Stealing arguments and posting them verbatim on another website is something someone actually finds the need to spend time doing
3. Someone chiming in on page 14 to tell Leo “he doesn’t understand the dimensional numbering”
Originally posted by leonidas
ok abhi, i think we're reached as much of an accord as we will on this particular topic. i think we NEED to use a wider view to take a look at what is intended, but admit that is subjective. i definitely don't think my pov is unreasonable though, by any stretch, but i can't say some of what you're saying is unreasonable either. i still fully disagree with your premise that the 5th and 6th exist outside the source wall, but can see why you think the dm is outside it. i still believe there is more evidence in general to suggest it IS part of the grand multiverse contained behind the wall, but....i wouldn't bet my life on it. hopefully it (and the other issues) will be clarified later.i'll tell you one of the biggest issues for me--no where--and i mean NO WHERE--does it SAY (in exact words) that the dark multiverse exists beyond the wall.
all we're ever REALLY told is that beyond the wall is a mystery, or the source exists there. there is nothing DEFINITIVE, that doesn't have to be inferred by your side or my side of the argument. it's....weird, actually.
anyway, hopefully we'll learn something TRULY, and UNDENIABLY definitive as the story goes forward. then we can do this all over again. 👆
That's from the preview of Justice League 27 and it literally calls out Final Crisis where Mandrakk fell into overvoid.
Check and mate.
if snyder were in front of you, and you asked him how many dimensions in the multiverse, you think he's ACTUALLY say 5?? (you think the 6th is outside, so he shouldn't count that...)
i'd bet you a million bucks he'd say 6, because the 6th is PART of the multiverse. it's the control room, the penthouse OF the multiverse. not sure that could be any more clear. anyway, nice to have a civil discussion for a change, though we still won't agree.
I misread that part but the 6th dimension is outside of the multiverse.
When perpetua brings her sons to see this big globe. That's the multiverse and the place that they were in at the time imo was the 6th dimension.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its alright, Snyder proved you wrong.That's from the preview of Justice League 27 and it literally calls out Final Crisis where Mandrakk fell into overvoid.
Check and mate.
lol
that doesn't sort anything--that only ADDS to the contradictions in snyder's OWN writing. it's also a direct contradiction to the very map HE featured twice in two distinct arcs.
again, all this proves is that he is making a mess of things, that the dc cosmology isn't nearly as neat and tidy as it may have first appeared to be, and that it's damn near impossible to say anything with certainty.
also, let's wait until the issue comes out. may be more in it, and there will certainly be more in the issues to come.
jl odyessey DID add some new terminology i noticed though. as darkseid's witnesses the breaking of the wall, he has this to say:
"hyper continuum", since the BIRTH OF THE MULTIVERSE (and all 3 main multiverses were born as one).
again, the implication seems clear to me that the wall breaking has resulted in the revealing of something brand new and never before seen. but, at this point, whatever. i'm hoping we'll learn more.
@diesl--i've already explained why i think the 6th is within the source wall--a couple times at least. your opinion is of course your own. 👆
@qf--yeah, i guess. more like we're both tired of trying to convince the other. we did agree that snyder has made a total sh!tshow of....pretty well everything though, so, that's something i guess. nwoot
