Originally posted by carver9
His blast didnt even touch Hyperion (I guess he did this because he didnt go into the fight with the intent to kill) and it nearly dropped him...
That scene is what I was referring to when I posted. His blast didn't do any damage to Hyperion.
His blasts basically has 0 feats.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Alberto named not one single example. He made a very general statement about Diana often being tagged by non-speedsters, which is not lowballing. All characters get tagged by all characters in comics. If that triggers you to put down a lowball list, you were looking for an excuse to do so. A soaked Namora sneaking up from behind an unsuspecting KH and breaking his neck (something he immediately healed from) has nothing to do with speed.I said nothing of anyone’s hair flying “up”. I said flying “back”. In the direction BM is running. That doesn’t happen from being bumped.
Where exactly did I say that Diana would stand still and let BM put an energy bubble around her? Provide the quote.
And please tell me how being bloodlusted makes you faster? Why would having your morals on keeping you from ducking and dodging? Dodging an opponent’s blows is not dangerous to that opponent. Bloodlust is moot to your point. And why do you emphasize a bloodlust enhancement for Diana and ignore it for Adam?
He hadn't, not yet. But as I said, I wanted to nip it in the bud before it blossomed into a full argument (hence the term, nip it in the bud).
Catching someone by surprise has nothing to do with speed? That's strange. I would argue being able to catch someone by surprise is the very definition of speed.
Flying 'back' would also happen when being pushed 'backwards' Or shoulder barged 'backwards' by a superstrong big guy, so....my point is still there.
You did not say that she would stand there. But you just posted a scan of BM bubbling a guy up whilst admitting it took him more finesse? How is that applicable at all to this battle scenario?
The bloodlust means that she will go for the kill QUICKER than she would without morals. Means she would be using ALL her abilities to win, which would include her speed. And her sword.
I emphasise it because we have seen what a bloodlusted Diana does. She carves DS' eyes out with her sword. Do we have one for BM?
Because with bloodlust on, we know she is using that sword to strike at vital points. Possibly killing. And we know when she WASN'T bloodlusted, she was fast enough to dodge, AND fast enough to use her lasso.
Without bloodlust, we have seen BM using his antimatter blasts and strength. With it? Are we just going to extrapolate upwards, without proof?
No if catching people unawares is due to speed instead of finesse more times than not, Batman should've been caught more times than not. It's not to say that in certain situations that speed wouldn't work, because logically it would. This really comes down to the character that is doing the sneaking. However, Blue Marvel is far faster than many of the characters that have hit Wonder Woman. If I need to spell it out to you, what I am saying is that Adam would be able to hit her. So, if you are, or have been trying to fortify an argument that paints him looking like a statue, there are plenty of examples on her side alone that nullifies it.
Her lasso could end this.
Whether she wins or not, it would not mean that she was more powerful than he is. She isn't. Nor is she an entire tier above him. She may win, but it would be more because of her brand of exploitative attacks, and ability to subdue beings above her power level. Even this notion can't be assured with 100% certainty, because shit happens.
Originally posted by Stoic
No if catching people unawares is due to speed instead of finesse more times than not, Batman should've been caught more times than not. It's not to say that in certain situations that speed wouldn't work, because logically it would. This really comes down to the character that is doing the sneaking. However, Blue Marvel is far faster than many of the characters that have hit Wonder Woman. If I need to spell it out to you, what I am saying is that Adam would be able to hit her. So, if you are, or have been trying to fortify an argument that paints him looking like a statue, there are plenty of examples on her side alone that nullifies it.
But what feats of speed does BM have? I have been asking this.
Because he fights speedy characters and THEY don't outspeed him? But OTHER characters have ALSO fought these same speedy characters and weren't outsped.
King Hyperion? Depowered Juggernaut.
Sentry? Hercules (and depowered Rulk, who wasn't Loebforce).
Namor? Captain America.
Now, you will argue that these were all low showings for King Hype, Sentry, and Namor.
I agree 3000. But why are those fights low showings for the three, and yet, when they fight BM and HE isn't outsped, are those BM fights not low showings for the three?
I'm not trying to throw low showings at BM. I am asking why are his fights with King Hype et al not seen as low showings for those characters. We assume that they are all fighting at their peak efficiencies when facing Adam, because..?
And again, I ALSO have speedy characters vs WW. But with THEM, they specifically mention her speed. How she's 'too fast'.
We also have 'objective' showings. Omega Beams don't have slow or fast gears, and in the n52, in their first showing, they were fast enough to nearly hit Flash, who was running out of breath. Yet, WW was fast enough to react to them, block them, then cut their source out.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You're literally naming "low showings" for Blue Marvel right now when I haven;t even started with a single example yet you wanna call ME a lowballer LMAO? 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
It's called nipping it in the bud. Do you understand, or do I need to walk you through it?
By doing so, I make you look stupid if you decide to start using low showings. Because I have already pre-empted you.
Wasn't I on ignore? LMAO.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85But what feats of speed does BM have? I have been asking this.
Because he fights speedy characters and THEY don't outspeed him? But OTHER characters have ALSO fought these same speedy characters and weren't outsped.
King Hyperion? Depowered Juggernaut.
Sentry? Hercules (and depowered Rulk, who wasn't Loebforce).
Namor? Captain America.
Now, you will argue that these were all low showings for King Hype, Sentry, and Namor.
I agree 3000. But why are those fights low showings for the three, and yet, when they fight BM and HE isn't outsped, are those BM fights not low showings for the three?
I'm not trying to throw low showings at BM. I am asking why are his fights with King Hype et al not seen as low showings for those characters. We assume that they are all fighting at their peak efficiencies when facing Adam, because..?
And again, I ALSO have speedy characters vs WW. But with THEM, they specifically mention her speed. How she's 'too fast'.
We also have 'objective' showings. Omega Beams don't have slow or fast gears, and in the n52, in their first showing, they were fast enough to nearly hit Flash, who was running out of breath. Yet, WW was fast enough to react to them, block them, then cut their source out.
Why are you not mentioning that the Omega beams hit Superman? 🙂
Originally posted by carver9
Why are you not mentioning that the Omega beams hit Superman? 🙂
Well if you noticed, I've been trying to avoid mentioning Supes - hence the use of Faora/Zod, 'HV', Supergirl.....
And yes, they hit Superman too. But Flash is faster than Supes, so I thought it was more....impressive that they nearly caught THE fastest guy in running in DC.
🙂
By the by, Pr was asking for clarification on your Doomsday question in the Comics Discussion thread.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I like a good laughI didn't nitpick or lowball though, I made a very general statement which is common with comics, that's not lowballing like Hulkster said. YOU just wanted to post those irrelevant low ends because you felt like it, NOBODY tempted you buddy
General statements are useless when we have the full capacity rule, buddy 🙂
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
😂 😂 😂
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
🙂 so even if he gets tagged all the time by slower opponents, unusable.
Now replace 'Flash' with 'WW', as I have proven that she possesses that level of speed.
Saying she 'generally' gets tagged by slower opponents is moot because she is now fighting at FULL capacity.
BM? All we have is some art that proves he has SOME level of superspeed. That's all I am saying. Doesn't mean he has the level to react to WW.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
comics doesn't work that way.Damage with no remotely any impressive superspeed or sort was able to tag Flash, while the same dude struggled to touch Batman
But this is the forum now, not comics.
So as my quote of the full capacity rule said, even if XYZ doesn't happen in every single fight, if they can do it in a forum fight, it's fair game.
We don't have to draw a long exciting fight scene. If the fight ends in a single panel, it ends in a single panel. Namor can stand there all day and get punched by Cap A, because he can take punches from an enraged She-Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and Cap Marvel:
But in comics? Cap, without using his shield, makes him bleed, lol:
We ignore the last scan. Because we don't care if it happened in canon comics, because PIS and the Full Capacity rule work against it.
I mean, using your argument, then Namor vs Cap is a legit fight, and not spite at all, because Cap has shown he is fast enough to punch Namor, and strong enough to hurt him (and is certainly skilled enough).
But just try making that fight on the forum, lol.
In comics, it looks good for the slower/weaker fighter to tag the stronger/faster character.
In forum fights, it becomes a massacre.
The "No PIS" RulePIS = Plot Induced Stupidity
At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.
This is what I mean. So using Hulkster's examples, Deathstroke and Batman have tagged WW (and even hurt her). But how do we have those showings, AND the numerous showings where she reacts to HV and Omega Beams etc?
We all agree that they are low showings. Therefore, unusable. I cannot say Deathstroke has FTL reactions, even though he has tagged Flash. I cannot say Spiderman takes heralds down.
So, back to the topic on hand. BM fights King Hyperion. We say KH is superfast. Does that mean BM is superfast, just because he was able to fight evenly with KH? Remember my scan above with Cap A and Namor. Remember that KH ALSO fought rather evenly with a depowered Juggy.
What makes us believe that the KH BM fought was bringing his A-game?
With WW/Supergirl, we have Supergirl specifically commenting that WW was too fast. We have the Omega Beams being deflected, even after they have hit superfast characters, and were exhausting even the fastest characters in DC (though not catching them).
This is my argument.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But this is the forum now, not comics.So as my quote of the full capacity rule said, even if XYZ doesn't happen in every single fight, if they can do it in a forum fight, it's fair game.
We don't have to draw a long exciting fight scene. If the fight ends in a single panel, it ends in a single panel. Namor can stand there all day and get punched by Cap A, because he can take punches from an enraged She-Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and Cap Marvel:
But in comics? Cap, without using his shield, makes him bleed, lol:
We ignore the last scan. Because we don't care if it happened in canon comics, because PIS and the Full Capacity rule work against it.
I mean, using your argument, then Namor vs Cap is a legit fight, and not spite at all, because Cap has shown he is fast enough to punch Namor, and strong enough to hurt him (and is certainly skilled enough).
But just try making that fight on the forum, lol.
In comics, it looks good for the slower/weaker fighter to tag the stronger/faster character.
In forum fights, it becomes a massacre.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Do you think speed gives her the majority though?
Speed, PLUS the haxx weaponry she has (which is boosted by the bloodlust stip).
Her lasso and sword are one shot weapons IF she can land them. I believe she has the skill to use them, AND the speed to land the hits.
Both sides are bloodlusted, true. But if I face Mike Tyson, and we're both bloodlusted....but I have a gun (which is faster than him)....doesn't matter if he's stronger, or more versatile, or more skilled at cooking/fighting/rapping/whatever. I am faster than him, and I have the will to use my gun for a killing shot.
Fight starts, he goes to attack me, I shoot him.