Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You don't think it's remotely debatable for round 1?Batman and Frank know pressure point attacks, and use them quige frequently (Batman more so, obv...Frank just shoots the pressure points).
Streets have been shown to dance around Thor. THESE streets have been shown to dance around heralds.
Pressure point attacks have OHKOd Thor before. It's not an outlier when I have just as many as the Thor supporters showing they work - IOW, 50/50.
Rd 2, they can attack those same pressure points with weapons that essentially bypass durability (I'm not giving them blunt knives, lol- they're sharp as hell. Imagine they're Wolverine claw sharp).
I honestly don't see how the first two AREN'T debatable...
I also don't see how Thor is going to fail at beating these two. Pressure points might hurt but they won't ko him, Mantis's cosmic martial arts are plot devicey and I actually wouldn't give her good odds against Thor in similar conditions.
If Thor is fighting anywhere remotely seriously Frank would be b^tchslapped in one panel. Bruce would actually last a whole page of rolling his punches and gritting his teeth through building busting punches but once he's broken a bone or two he'll eventually run out of endurance.
These guys aren't speedsters, they can't run away from Thor forever.
I don't really see this as debatable really, you'd need to be horrible biased against Thor and ride a pressure point feat for a character that's not even here to make it remotely a fight. Anything else always end in the humans death. Such prove is as flimsy as Thor being scared of dying by falling off a building.
Remember the time Thor got koed by a sniper-shot in Priest's Black Panther run? I guess any decent gunner can take a few wins against hammerless Thor too awesr
Then we get into the realms of handbook debating. I sit here with my Marvel book, Thor is a 7 in all categories, Punisher is a 4 in speed, therefore no debate needs to take place. Ignoring what's actually happened multiple times in canon comics.
Alberto brought up hammerless Thor stalemating an IM armor in strength.
Frank took one apart with his normal knife, by targeting, yes, the joints and vulnerable spots.
Grundy takes on Alan Scott. Yet Batman takes him out with pressure points.
Ah, I hear everyone cry, Grundy is inconsistent, and Batman is PIS.
But it's CONSISTENT for pressure points to work....if anything, them not working is the outlier.
People are basically ignoring comic showings where Thor is consistently tagged by streets, pressure points consistently work, and these two consistently use these attacks to win.
Consistently work as in how often? Getting him legthly incapacitated repeatedly by weaker opponents? This is not kryptonite, we have showings of Thor having a huge advantage against top tier martial artists.
As far as I know when Thor has fought Captain America (who is more of a martial artist than Frank) he has always have a notable edge. Not because the hammer, but because of sheer physical status. So we have a good number of showings of a pressure-point capable martial artist that has made a living out of barely surviving the likes of Thor. He has failed to defeat Thor using them and the took the U-foes. In comics Thor actually has a lengthy experience of not being in danger vs top tier martial artists. And Cap is also stronger than this two..
Originally posted by Bentley
Consistently work as in how often? Getting him legthly incapacitated repeatedly by weaker opponents? This is not kryptonite, we have showings of Thor having a huge advantage against top tier martial artists.As far as I know when Thor has fought Captain America (who is more of a martial artist than Frank) he has always have a notable edge. Not because the hammer, but because of sheer physical status. So we have a good number of showings of a pressure-point capable martial artist that has made a living out of barely surviving the likes of Thor. He has failed to defeat Thor using them and the took the U-foes. In comics Thor actually has a lengthy experience of not being in danger vs top tier martial artists. And Cap is also stronger than this two..
In their very first meeting, Cap was able to dance around Mjolnir after Thor threw it at him.
So you admit, we have a single pressure point MA barely surviving Thor. We now have two (and no, no fodder stacking here). Batman and Frank also don't have the luxury of an indestructible shield to soak up the hits- they're more dependent on avoiding them in the first place. Consistently.
Strength is....I'm still unsure why it's such a fetish. This isn't a bench contest. Mantis has shown with her fragile wrists being able to KO Thor. I 1000% concede that Thor is stronger than these two combined and amped 100x....but that's not the issue
There's a whole thread of MAs outspeeding Thor. Daredevil, Captain America, Wolverine, Sabertooth...
And then.....you're ignoring a round where they both have knives (and Thor is barehanded), and a round where they just have to prove Thor isn't 4x their speed.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Punisher isn't that fast, nor is he a speedster
He's fast enough - no speedster, I agree.
Fast enough to dodge and tag Spidey:
http://i.imgur.com/iLTBFcc.jpg
Who is faster than Thor:
https://i.imgur.com/4wc1DBm.jpg
He's fast enough to draw and shoot Daredevil's clubs out of the air:
http://i.imgur.com/KoRauYi.png
Daredevil, who is faster than Thor:
https://i.imgur.com/mdds218.jpg
And yes, he was fast enough to parry Cap's shield throw:
http://i.imgur.com/UDjF2ba.png
Cap, who was able to tag Puma when Mjolnir couldn't....you get the picture:
https://imgur.com/a/Hufbj2L
And yes, Wolverine:
http://i.imgur.com/ZhB6bkx.jpg
Who is faster than Thor:
https://i.imgur.com/0qk0QXf.jpg
So yeah, he's not a speedster - but he doesn't need to be. He just needs to be faster than Thor. On TOP of that, he also has a pretty capable partner in Batman.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Mantis can affect virtually any physical fighter with her superhuman pressure strikes. People like Her and Gamora even affect Thanos. Idk why that feat keep getting brought up
Because Thor has faced pressure point attacks twice in his entire career, that I know of. One time it worked, the other, it didn't. So on balance, we can say that pressure points could indeed work.
I think round 2 and 3 need to be debated differently, to me at least I can see some other arguments brought in regarding durability and reflexes. But to me saying there is any shadow of doubt on whether Punisher can defeat Thor in hand to hand it's ludicrous if we go by comics. We can see Captain consistently surviving against Thor and that's the best these two could expect: last for a while before getting crushed.
If Captain was capable of handling Thor to an arguable capacity we would've seen that already in their lengthy careers together.
....through a portal.
But that's neither here nor there. If you think he's going to unleash his full speed and strength on two humans, one of whom he's actually fought beside and who recently fought in the War of the Realms...
And that THAT'S what's needed to win, then so be it, lmao.
Thor has to release his mental blocks and stop holding back against 2 humans, confirmed lmao.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You don't think it's remotely debatable for round 1?Batman and Frank know pressure point attacks, and use them quige frequently (Batman more so, obv...Frank just shoots the pressure points).
Streets have been shown to dance around Thor. THESE streets have been shown to dance around heralds.
Pressure point attacks have OHKOd Thor before. It's not an outlier when I have just as many as the Thor supporters showing they work - IOW, 50/50.
Rd 2, they can attack those same pressure points with weapons that essentially bypass durability (I'm not giving them blunt knives, lol- they're sharp as hell. Imagine they're Wolverine claw sharp).
I honestly don't see how the first two AREN'T debatable...
It just really, really comes across as cherry picking on your part, tbh. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how it looks to me. Like you wouldn't regard those same feats as being valid if they were used against another herald.
Originally posted by -Pr-
It just really, really comes across as cherry picking on your part, tbh. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how it looks to me. Like you wouldn't regard those same feats as being valid if they were used against another herald.
He does it a lot, guy has favoritism for certain characters tbh
