Originally posted by Delta1938
You didn't even read the comic, like usual, you're wrong.
Superman knows Kryptonian martial arts, plus he received training from Diana, Bruce and WildCat. He may not know much, but those 3 are some of the best masters in the DC verse.
Plus, it’s not farfetched to say Clark knows every known martial arts in the world, since we all know anything he sees he knows and remembers them to the T.
If Thor at 640lbs can move around normally without his normal level of strength, he would still be superhumanly strong. A normal man would be in trouble against this, even one that weighed 250-280lbs at 6'4". Thor knows how to fight. All he'd have to do is grab him and all sorts of problems would happen to the smaller man. This isn't rocket science.
Originally posted by Stoic
If Thor at 640lbs can move around normally without his normal level of strength, he would still be superhumanly strong. A normal man would be in trouble against this, even one that weighed 250-280lbs at 6'4". Thor knows how to fight. All he'd have to do is grab him and all sorts of problems would happen to the smaller man. This isn't rocket science.
I only saw scans, but Thor didn't really seem what you're arguing the time I saw him depowered and with Cap. Maybe it undid everything, maybe writer oversight, maybe writer explicitly ignored it for the sake of the story. Assuming I didn't miss or misremember anything.
But going by the OP and how Asgardian weight is described, seems like your argument is irrelevant because Thor is supposed to be a powerless normal human. Not someone who's way heavier than a human his size should be because of 3 times greater bone and muscle density.
But if you're going to argue on paper, a powerless Superman kicked through a large metal garbage bin and ripped it in half, casually tossed a large desk(IIRC), broke out of a containment spell that was said able to hold multiple men(I think 6, but maybe more), is pretty agile and fast(and the Thor vs Street Level thread is full of examples of Thor being inferior in this regard), and wasn't KOed by blows from Earth-Man and survived reentry heat. All while powerless. Plus T-Vo is still on the table given it's a skill, not a conventional power.
Argue high ends all you want, these happened on panel, not hypothetical capabilities for Thor that should be negated by the OP.
Originally posted by Delta1938
I only saw scans, but Thor didn't really seem what you're arguing the time I saw him depowered and with Cap. Maybe it undid everything, maybe writer oversight, maybe writer explicitly ignored it for the sake of the story. Assuming I didn't miss or misremember anything.But going by the OP and how Asgardian weight is described, seems like your argument is irrelevant because Thor is supposed to be a powerless normal human. Not someone who's way heavier than a human his size should be because of 3 times greater bone and muscle density.
But if you're going to argue on paper, a powerless Superman kicked through a large metal garbage bin and ripped it in half, casually tossed a large desk(IIRC), broke out of a containment spell that was said able to hold multiple men(I think 6, but maybe more), is pretty agile and fast(and the Thor vs Street Level thread is full of examples of Thor being inferior in this regard), and wasn't KOed by blows from Earth-Man and survived reentry heat. All while powerless. Plus T-Vo is still on the table given it's a skill, not a conventional power.
Argue high ends all you want, these happened on panel, not hypothetical capabilities for Thor that should be negated by the OP.
Delta, next time you get the chance to square off against a football player that weighs twice your weight, tell us about the outcome. I mean, sure you have a chance to win, providing that the football player doesn't lay a glove on you, but let's say he's also been a trained fighter for the better part of his life, the likelihood that he does manage to hit you becomes highly probable. That's what I'm talking about. We aren't reducing Thors weight to the weight of a normal in shape 6'6" man, it's just Thor at the same weight same height vs Superman at the same weight same height without their super powers. The answer becomes clear. In other words, who would win a fight between a Super Heavyweight and a Lightweight? On average the Super Heavyweight would win.
Originally posted by Stoic
Delta, next time you get the chance to square off against a football player that weighs twice your weight, tell us about the outcome. I mean, sure you have a chance to win, providing that the football player doesn't lay a glove on you, but let's say he's also been a trained fighter for the better part of his life, the likelihood that he does manage to hit you becomes highly probable. That's what I'm talking about. We aren't reducing Thors weight to the weight of a normal in shape 6'6" man, it's just Thor at the same weight same height vs Superman at the same weight same height without their super powers. The answer becomes clear. In other words, who would win a fight between a Super Heavyweight and a Lightweight? On average the Super Heavyweight would win.
Yes, I know what you're trying to argue. You're arguing in theory. I'm arguing what Superman's actually done on panel while powerless. Powerless Superman is still more impressive than your hypothetical based argument.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So? Clark was blatantly superhuman there, it's more a feat for Savage.
lol that makes it even worse. Clark couldn't fly, and lost most of his heat vision and super strength. But was still fighting after an explosion and able to basically tank getting shot in the back, so significantly greater durability than he has here. Vandal Savage koed him clearly, really almost killed him in a mostly h2h fight. Vandal even stated something about having thousands of years on him. How many years of fighting do you think Thor has over Clark?
edit here is the fight, even worse than I remembered.
Originally posted by Supermutant
lol that makes it even worse. Clark couldn't fly, and lost most of his heat vision and super strength. But was still fighting after an explosion and able to basically tank getting shot in the back, so significantly greater durability than he has here. Vandal Savage koed him clearly, really almost killed him in a mostly h2h fight. Vandal even stated something about having thousands of years on him. How many years of fighting do you think Thor has over Clark?edit here is the fight, even worse than I remembered.
Clark could fight Aquaman (who was a hundred times stronger than him at that point) better than that.
Context much, huh?
Originally posted by Supermutant
lol that makes it even worse. Clark couldn't fly, and lost most of his heat vision and super strength. But was still fighting after an explosion and able to basically tank getting shot in the back, so significantly greater durability than he has here. Vandal Savage koed him clearly, really almost killed him in a mostly h2h fight. Vandal even stated something about having thousands of years on him. How many years of fighting do you think Thor has over Clark?edit here is the fight, even worse than I remembered.
He's pretty weak there. Don't know what the big deal is? No powers vs a huge dude with no powers means loss. Maybe Superman should be banned because even depowered he's argued as being unbeatable. It's ridiculous.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He is making it out as if Vandal Savage was just human and beat Superman. And that's why Thor beats Superman.
How in the world did you get that from what I posted? My whole point is that with no powers or equal bodies Thor will be the more skillful fighter. You are the one mentioning that Clark was still a low level super human there. So you had one low level super human vs another one in Savage.
Lol you mentioning context then show a "fight" where Aquaman is begging Clark to take a fall. 🤪
He's pretty weak there. Don't know what the big deal is? No powers vs a huge dude with no powers means loss. Maybe Superman should be banned because even depowered he's argued as being unbeatable. It's ridiculous.
exactly so now Superman has been fighting as long as Thor has plus even severely depowered he's a major threat to Aquaman going all out.
At this point if not even worth opening a thread with Clark in it no matter the circumstances. They can have fun with that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He is making it out as if Vandal Savage was just human and beat Superman. And that's why Thor beats Superman.
Exactly. Even reduced to human, Thor is still relatively superhuman.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My post was a genuine question. With the merging of the timelines, THAT Superman (who was depowered) is now merged with P52 Supes, who fought with WW for 1000s of years, whilst depowered, right?
Does the last part of your statement make sense to you? I mean about the 1000's of years.