Using that scene as a way to lower Clark status isn’t being genuine.
Someone else can come here and ask where was Flash in Final Crisis? Or what happen to Flash when Doomsday attack? Or when the Shadow Moon was barreling toward the Earth. I didn’t see Flash being the go to.
Case and point, that was a Flash event made to make Flash look good. The League was just there to lend a hand.
kudos to the flash camp for being the side posting on panel evidences
just read over the threads for the first time seems like the scans I posted has already been posted earlier in the thread, I really need to read the entire thread before posting but got caught up in the heat of moment, anyway here's another direct comparison of Flash being faster than Superman. (This one isn't in Flash comics)
https://imgur.com/PvMB4EC
Originally posted by SquallX
Using that scene as a way to lower Clark status isn’t being genuine.Someone else can come here and ask where was Flash in Final Crisis? Or what happen to Flash when Doomsday attack? Or when the Shadow Moon was barreling toward the Earth. I didn’t see Flash being the go to.
Case and point, that was a Flash event made to make Flash look good. The League was just there to lend a hand.
1. See above
2. Why are feats from Flash solo books not permitted to discuss? They are just as canon. I could say the same thing about superman in Justice League book, him being DC poster boy. that was a Superman event made to make Superman look good. The League was just there to lend a hand. See what I did there?
never did I see the day people complaining canon feats from said character's own series because they had no argument
The Flashes outran the Black Racer in Final Crisis and led him to Darkseid
Wally was not even half as powerful during DOS Doomsday era, he was new to his power and he had major upgrades since then, everyone who read the flash should know that
Originally posted by DarkSaint85But all that does is reinforce that Flash will always be faster than Superman, which is a premise that it seems everybody agrees with: Whether or not Flash speed steals, he is faster. Even if Superman speeds up, Flash can speed up more.
This is why the speed steal is being focussed on.Once we agree it works, then no, he's never hitting Flash. Even if he generates his own kinetic energy (which still fall in the remit of Flash's control) he's still amping Wally.
Generating your own kinetic energy is a pretty weird argument to make though.
So why does speed steal = Superman can never hit Flash?
Originally posted by Smurph
But all that does is reinforce that Flash will always be faster than Superman, which is a premise that it seems everybody agrees with: Whether or not Flash speed steals, he is faster. Even if Superman speeds up, Flash can speed up more.So why does speed steal = Superman can never hit Flash?
because by stealing his speed superman become slower and flash become faster until superman is a statue. Flash is able to steal opponent's momentum to reduce their speed to minimum, the stolen kinetic energy can add to his own speed making him faster
lets say initially wally is moving 100 mph and superman is moving 95 mph
wally steal 90 mph of his speed and become 190 mph fast, superman is left with 5 mph speed. how is Superman moving 5 mph able to hit Wally moving 190 mph? If Superman trying to charge up from 5mph to 50 mph trying to catch up, Wally steal another 45mph leaving him 5mph again
Originally posted by MrMindWithout speed steal, do you think Superman would/could hit Wally in this scenario?
because by stealing his speed superman become slower and flash become faster until superman is a statue. Flash is able to steal opponent's momentum to reduce their speed to minimum, the stolen kinetic energy can add to his own speed making him fasterlets say initially wally is moving 100 mph and superman is moving 95 mph
wally steal 90 mph of his speed and become 190 mph fast, superman is left with 5 mph speed. how is Superman moving 5 mph able to hit Wally moving 190 mph? If Superman trying to charge up from 5mph to 50 mph trying to catch up, Wally steal another 45mph leaving him mph again
The speed gap exists either way, right?
Originally posted by Smurph
Without speed steal, do you think Superman would/could hit Wally in this scenario?The speed gap exists either way, right?
Without speed steal Superman would win 7/10 because the speed gap isn't huge, Superman himself has insane speed feats and he's stronger with more other powers
I still give 3 to Flash as he can avoid Supe's attack by vibrate then either at the off chance
1. vibrating phase and remove Supe's heart/brain like he did amazo
2. dump superman into speedforce via bfr
3. maybe time traveling? he done it before not using it as battle tactic
assuming Barry/Wally, CIS Off
Originally posted by MrMind
Without speed steal Superman would win 7/10 because the speed gap isn't huge, Superman himself has insane speed feats and he's stronger with more other powersI still give 3 to Flash as he can avoid Supe's attack by vibrate then either at the off chance
1. vibrating phase and remove Supe's heart/brain like he did amazo
2. dump superman into speedforce via bfr
3. maybe time traveling? he done it before not using it as battle tactic
assuming Barry/Wally, CIS Off
4. IMP spam till farmboy dies.
another feat just for fun, Wally deactivated Mirror Master's gun in picoseconds time. Flash having trouble with the Rogues eh?
Flash has also lend Superman speed once because Supes wasn't fast enough to fly ftl in space, granted Supes has become much more faster and powerful than in 90s and early 00s, but so is the Flash
Originally posted by MrMindOK, so Superman wins if he can reduce the speed gap.
Without speed steal Superman would win 7/10 because the speed gap isn't huge, Superman himself has insane speed feats and he's stronger with more other powersI still give 3 to Flash as he can avoid Supe's attack by vibrate then either at the off chance
1. vibrating phase and remove Supe's heart/brain like he did amazo
2. dump superman into speedforce via bfr
3. maybe time traveling? he done it before not using it as battle tactic
assuming Barry/Wally, CIS Off
I just don't see how speed steal as it's usually depicted would stop him from doing that, and guarantee that Flash will never get hit. It's not like Superman actually "charges up" (to use your words) to get from 0 to 60. From a state of rest, he still crosses three space sectors in a single panel.
Speed steal might make it less likely that Superman hits Flash, and might guarantee that it happens less often, but the comics don't show how that one trick will allow Flash to dominate here.
Originally posted by Smurph
OK, so Superman wins if he can reduce the speed gap.I just don't see how speed steal as it's usually depicted would stop him from doing that, and guarantee that Flash will never get hit. It's not like Superman actually "charges up" (to use your words) to get from 0 to 60. From a state of rest, he still crosses three space sectors in a single panel.
Speed steal might make it less likely that Superman hits Flash, and might guarantee that it happens less often, but the comics don't show how that one trick will allow Flash to dominate here.
He can steal speed when superman is standing still
He can steal speed when superman is charging at him full speed
he can steal speed when he himself is standing still
he can even steal speed without touching superman at all
that's just how it works in comics
it has shown enough times to count as a viable tactic, other than the Jay instance posted by alberto and the other couple instances posted by phil
we see Wally able to steal speed when standing still himself, he can speed steal before his opponent even moves
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/14/145371/3006017-speedstealamazo.jpg
he did it to speedster like cheetah when cheetah was on top of him holding him down
https://imgur.com/s5tGPDy
he's done it again and again
speed stealing the entire motion of earth
https://imgur.com/a/rLUsE
I'm not gonna waste time posting 20 instances of flash stealing speed I'm sure anyone can find it in respect threads, it's not an uncommon tactic
as for superman instantly going max speed, it wouldn't matter since he can never out react flash.
flash has attosecond and zeptosecond reaction speed.
as far as travel speed, evidences has been posted in here, superman lost most of their races and that's direct comparison
bell ring he register superman as a threat, steal his speed, leave him as a statue, if he can't knock superman out before superman regaining his speed (that's why I say charging back up in my previous post I think you misunderstood), he can steal superman speed again, rinse and repeat for as many times as he wants.
also to add
I'm talking about Barry/Wally
or maybe Bart when he had unviersal speedforce at one time
Jay would of course loses. I know each individual's feats aren't interchangeable that's why most of my scans are focused on Wally. (Barry has equally impressive stuff)
here's Wally going attosecond at The Flash Vol 2 151
https://imgur.com/Yvf9ViV
