Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
First of all you need to note the circumference of a star then times that by 1 billion. Then note that number as around a secondOur sun since it's the smallest type of star
Surface area = 6.088 X 10^12 per square kilometre
Circumference - 2,713,406 miles aka 4,366,813 km
Radius - 695,700 km
So what weird looking at is a surface area of 6,088,000,000,000 or 6 trillion
That will be multiplied by the circumference. Then the radius. Then by 4 since the radius is only a quarter of the sun
Then the answer is multiplied by a billion
So your looking at this number
In a second. In kilometres
That's it in miles
So rounding it up would be 4.6 x 10^34
That number would look something like this
46,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 m/s
Or 46 nonillion m/s
That's lower end
The feat itself lasted mere seconds
If not a second. That is the lower end of the calculation excluding the different sizes of stars
And that's just 1 billion. Considering the fact that it states billions upon billions
I didn't even calc the distance between his line of sight and the potential placements of the stars
When you dispute this, we'll believe Superman has better *perception* speed than Surfer, until then no he doesn't
Like I SAID if PERCEPTION translates to combat than Surfer's absolutely faster than Superman, which is it
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Not in the least bit. It's purely a measure of the time it takes for him to see something which is purely a feat of perception. It right there along the lines of perceiving item moving fast, counting huge numbers in a whim, etc.Reaction speed is the speed of your reaction.
You hear a jet, you see a jet, you focus on it in the distance. That's a reaction.
If Thor throws a hammer and Kal can percieve it, he can dodge it.
Originally posted by cdtm
You hear a jet, you see a jet, you focus on it in the distance. That's a reaction.If Thor throws a hammer and Kal can percieve it, he can dodge it.
it doesnt mean his body is as fast to react to it. someone can think really fast, doesnt mean he can also move his limbs in that speed. professor X is able to read dozens of minds in seconds. would you argue he has super human speed as far as movement?
Originally posted by Dareangel
it doesnt mean his body is as fast to react to it. someone can think really fast, doesnt mean he can also move his limbs in that speed. professor X is able to read dozens of minds in seconds. would you argue he has super human speed as far as movement?
He'd need to move his field of vision to track Kosmos. Otherwise he'd be staring straight ahead, or in a random spot.
The fact he can track Kosmos implies he can move his field of vision to track him.
Devils Advocate!
Surfer tracking and reacting to instantaneous teleportation in combat!
Discussed! Lol
Oh wait here’s the scan:
Originally posted by cdtm
He'd need to move his field of vision to track Kosmos. Otherwise he'd be staring straight ahead, or in a random spot.The fact he can track Kosmos implies he can move his field of vision to track him.
he simply used his cerebral abilities to track him down. his so called vision is the way he calls it. like psychic vision for example. again, him using cerebral abilities in a specific amount of time, doesnt mean his body can move at that speed, like the example with professor X reading dozens minds in seconds. kal kent can calculate in nanoseconds and whats not. but as far as his physical abilities, or abilities that can help him in combat, he never demonstrated such speed. his durability sucks as well to be honest. ultraman one shotted him with his heat vision. i always saw kal kent as a physically weaker kal EL but simply with more exotic powers that are not necessarily useful in combat. i think all his side powers are confusing people, making them believe they make him a trans. people even claimed he is a low skyfather which is absurd.
Originally posted by cdtm
You hear a jet, you see a jet, you focus on it in the distance. That's a reaction.If Thor throws a hammer and Kal can percieve it, he can dodge it.
That's quite a slippery slope. The ability to avoid defenses at light speed would logically equate to light speed perception.
The common response is that it doesn't work that way in comics. That should apply evenly to all perception feats.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Indeed.
You are still misunderstanding the scan.Post Thor tracking a ship within the timespan of yoctoseconds, please. Your example is a completely different scenario.
Using Hulkster's analogy:
If I track a supersonic jet flying over head, that does NOT mean I have supersonic reflexes - I 10,000% agree with Hulkster and you on this.
HOWEVER, if I track a supersonic jet flying overhead in nanoseconds/picoseconds....then yes, I have supersonic (probably much much better, actually) reaction speeds.
It's the TIME taken to track objects, NOT the speed at which the objects travel, that matters.
And Kal was using his 5D Vision to perceive, track, and follow Kosmos through the timestream on a yoctosecond-by-yoctosecond basis. Why wouldn't that be applicable in a combat situation?
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
When you dispute this, we'll believe Superman has better *perception* speed than Surfer, until then no he doesn'tLike I SAID if PERCEPTION translates to combat than Surfer's absolutely faster than Superman, which is it
behold, the annihilation of alberto
Originally posted by Philosophía
Ok, so, now that I logged out of my Darksaint account, let's do some math.1). Time frame
[b]Flash
0.00001 us (microseconds). That's 1 second * 10^(-11) seconds.
Superman
Let's approximate it, based on the dialogue, at 20 seconds (and for easier calculation, to make it round, as we'll split this time in two later...you'll see why).
So the timeframe in which Flash did his feat is about 2 * 10^12 times smaller.
2). Distance and speed
Flash
Total number of people = 532000
Carried "one at a time, sometimes two" for a distance of 35 miles.
Let's say he carries 1.5 people on average.
The total distance moved by Flash = 532000/1.5 (total number of people/people he carries on average) * 70 miles (there and back) = 24,826,666 miles.Turn into kilometers, that's aprox 40,000,000 km.
He did this in 10^(-11) seconds.
That means that he travelled around 13 trillion times the speed of light.
So Flash moves at 13 * 10^12 times the speed of light.
Superman
Let's start with a few pointers:
- Total volume of the moon = 21.9 billion cubic km
- We can see (1st panel) that there's no large pieces of the moon left, until Superman starts merging the debris:
https://imgur.com/a/79ksQfd
- We can see some of the chunks Superman is carying, in the same issue, like here:
https://imgur.com/a/EVcHB5j
And here:
https://imgur.com/a/MU0Abby
https://imgur.com/a/JiUZbZ7
https://imgur.com/a/C4DvJYV
Remember: This is after he already blitzed the debris to merge it at superspeed, and it's just the finishing touches, so the original pieces very probably were very small. . But, for the sake of the argument..let's take it like that.
We can observe that some of them are fist sized, some of them are human sized, some are bigger. Now, the average human body has a volume of 95 liters. Let's say 100. That's 0.1 cubic meters. But, let's be generous. Let's make the average debris as 100 times as large as that and say it's 10 cubic meters.So we have the moon at 21.9 billion cubic km, split into pieces of average 10 cubic meters.
21.9 * 10^9 * (m^3)^3 = 21.9 * 10^9 * 10^9 = 21.9 * 10^18 cubic meters total volume of the moon.
That means that there are 21.9 * 10^18 cubic meters (total volume) divided by 10 cubic meters (chunks volume) = 21.9 * 10^17 pieces of moon. Lets downgrade even more, and say it's 20 * 10^17 = 2 * 10^18 pieces of moon or, better said, 2 quintillion pieces.
- So we know we have 2 quintillion pieces. Now, we move on to the volume they're spreaded out. From the rebuilding scan, we can see that the diameter of the sphere in which they were thrown (i.e. omnidirectional) is approximately 2 times the diameter of the moon. That is 2*3,474 km = 6948 ~ 7000 km.
The volume of the sphere, V = 1.43675504E+21 m3 =~ 2 * 10^21 cubic meters
To make calculations possible, let's assume that the 2 * 10^ 18 pieces of debris are evenly distributes in the sphere, which would make the distance between two adjacent pieces inside it 100 meters.
Now, what other information do we have?
Superman was taking these pieces, and was grouping and fusing them, to make a bigger piece. Then he moved on to other pieces, and did the same thing.
And then he took those two bigger pieces he fused, and fused THEM together.
That's why we see different chunks, all over in space, being formed, as he fuses groups of debris together.
Let's say that Superman fuses them in groups of 100 chunks of 100 times his size each. And then he moves on to the next group, does the same. And then he fuses these two, and moves on to others, etc.
That means Superman travels, just for the first grouping of debris into groups of 100:
The distance between the chunks - i.e. in absolute total, if he were to fuse the moon in ONE go, he'd have to travel 2 quintillion (pieces) * 100 meters. That is 2 * 10^17 km. That is already a 100 billion times the speed of light, and that's if he had played "snake".Next, he'd have to take these groups of 100, and let's say fuse them into another group of 100 (remember, each of these 100 is already 100 times larger than him).
The distance, is again, the same, since the bigger chunks would have the same overall distance between them. That is another 2*10^17 km.
And, also, remember something else - the bigger the pieces he has to fuse, the more precise, and the more time, he has to take to do the process of fusing itself.
He wants to make the Moon the EXACT same way it was.
Let's say he ALWAYS fuses pieces by grouping them into 100 (even when some of them get as big as mountains -- essentially forcing him to fuse 100 mountains in one go...then 10,000 mountains with another 10,000 mountains in one go, etc.)
That means, in order to get the FINALIZED moon, by incrementally bigger chunks, he'd have to do this trip:
The distance he has to travel each time = (2*10^17)
The number of times, in total, he has to travel it, which is 2 * 10 ^18 / 100 = 2 * 10 ^16.So, f*cking finally, if anybody follows this, we have the final distance:
2 * 10^17 km * 2 * 10 ^16 = 4 * 10^ 33 km.This is also assuming that all of the pieces that he has to fuse are literally one next to another, and that he doesn't have to travel in a completely different part of the sphere to get it.
Think of it like a convenient puzzle, where the pieces are split over an area, but they're in the exact same order as they were when complete.
How convenient! But let's assume it's so...
Now, we go back to the beginning of the post where we approximate this all took 20 seconds, judging by the dialogue with Batman.
How much of that time is spent FUSING, with the utmost precision to make it exactly how it was, these large pieces (remember, he does this with his hands/heat vision and whatnot), and how much time is spend travelling from one piece to the next? The reason I made it a round 20 seconds is because it's reasonable to assume it was half/half.
So he spent 10 seconds travelling 4 * 10 ^33 km. That's 4*10^32 km per second.
So Superman is, in terms of flight speed travelled, aprox 10^26 times the speed of light.
So that's 100 SEPTILION times the speed of light. Or, to put it better, it's a a 100 million billion billion times the speed of light. Or 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light.
As far as the other 10 seconds he spend fusing? He had to do the fusing process, initially, for the first grouping, 2 quintillion times, for each of the initial pieces.
Then, he had to do it 0.02 quintillion times, for the bigger pieces, obtained by grouping the smaller ones. Then 0.0002 for...etc.Let's approximate it at, simply, 2 quintillion times. What's a few trillion between friends?
How much, from his perspective (i.e. his '1 second passes'😉, do you think it took Superman for the pieces, on average? Remember, the bigger the pieces get, the more he has to fuse, the difficult it becomes. AND he has to put them EXACTLY the way they were.
Let's average of 50 seconds, from his perspective. The first ones are fast, but the later ones are slower. Remember the veritable mountains (and bigger) that I mentioned, about Superman having to fuse perfectly? Do you think it would take him 50 seconds without superspeed? Of course not. But again, let's take the minimum.
That means, that what would be 10 seconds from 'normal time' perspective, would be 50 * 2 * 10^18 from Superman's perspective. That means each second, from his perspective, would be 10^19 seconds.
To put this into a context that can be easier grasped, from Superman's perception level, inside a single second, he lives the entire age of the Universe, ten times over.
You can adjust any number, but this is the ballpark, folks.
[/B]
Originally posted by TheHulkster
That's quite a slippery slope. The ability to avoid defenses at light speed would logically equate to light speed perception.The common response is that it doesn't work that way in comics. That should apply evenly to all perception feats.
I never said it doesn't work that way. Surfer is definitely mftl.