Despero Vs Apocalypse

Apoc restrained the Hulk with a single coil/arm... and hits with enough force to sever young Thor's skull from his spine, according to the impartial narrator.

Despero singelhandedly took on JLA lineups that would annihilate Apocalypse!

Originally posted by Stoic
@DS. There's no evidence to prove that Despero would have TP power over Apoc. We should therefore stick to what we know. That's what I'm saying.

Well we can compare their foes - and I am willing to bet Martian Manhunter has better TP feats than Apoc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well we can compare their foes - and I am willing to bet Martian Manhunter has better TP feats than Apoc.

It has less to do with TP feats and more to do with TP resistance feats, and the tech backing to accomplish said feats. J'onn has better TP manipulation feats than Lobo as well, but he'd never be able to give Lobo the mind whammy.

At this point we should just stick with what we know is all I'm getting at. Apoc on the other has devices that would scramble Despero's nervous system like what he initially rigged up for the Hulk, prior to making him War. Apoc has never been a physical pushover as far as I know either.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Despero singelhandedly took on JLA lineups that would annihilate Apocalypse!

Despero was also hurt by Aquaman, so we know that Apocalypse should be able to hurt him as well. Say what you want, but Virtue and Vice left a bad taste in my mouth with all of the flip flopping. The heroes literally ran face first into his fist. None of them fought to the best of their ability. Then we have the shit-ton of Despero versions, and their variable power levels. Apoc would easily be able to slap tech on Despero and give him a number imo.

Martian Manhunter ALSO has TP resistance feats. Spectre tried to get in - no bueno.

Not to mention Hal Jordan, Batman et Al - all of whom have impressive TP resistance, all of whom were SIMULTANEOUSLY controlled by Despero.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Martian Manhunter ALSO has TP resistance feats. Spectre tried to get in - no bueno.

Not to mention Hal Jordan, Batman et Al - all of whom have impressive TP resistance, all of whom were SIMULTANEOUSLY controlled by Despero.

Despero couldn't control Lobo though, and he's well below a couple that you mentioned. A nice resume doesn't give Despero a free pass to control a creature that has yet to be controled. The only time that I recall Apoc being manipulated was by Nate Grey's quasi reality warping TP. Not selling Despero short, but I never got the impression that he was on Nate Grey's highest levels? Despero like Lobo has tech to stunt the effects of mind domination. That tech on the other hand has been used to enthral many other characters.

Can you say without a doubt that Despero would be able to mind rape Apoc? If not, well it's like I said earlier.

I bet Mr Pickles would beat the both of them.

I dont think you should be using the despero/lobo fight. IIRC, that was a watered down Despero, who switched minds with L-Ron.

Typically, despero's TP is powerful enough to own MM telepathically.

I failed to see how this fight is close when you consider their average showings are on completely different tiers. Despero is a team buster that's capable of taking down elite teams like JLA. apocalypse fuk with X Men. I'm not brushed up on x men at all but from what I've seen apoc is not much above other villains like magneto if at all. And someone like magneto would be not be the top tier of teams like JLA or JSA

Originally posted by Stoic
Despero couldn't control Lobo though, and he's well below a couple that you mentioned. A nice resume doesn't give Despero a free pass to control a creature that has yet to be controled. The only time that I recall Apoc being manipulated was by Nate Grey's quasi reality warping TP. Not selling Despero short, but I never got the impression that he was on Nate Grey's highest levels? Despero like Lobo has tech to stunt the effects of mind domination. That tech on the other hand has been used to enthral many other characters.

Can you say without a doubt that Despero would be able to mind rape Apoc? If not, well it's like I said earlier.

Lobo's defence is above anyone here though, so I wouldn't use that like some kind of low showing. He literally doesn't do logic.

I dont think despero even used TP on lobo, if its the encounter I'm thinking.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lobo's defence is above anyone here though, so I wouldn't use that like some kind of low showing. He literally doesn't do logic.

If not for the Celestial technology there'd be no reason to disagree. However, it is known that he possesses it, and as such I don't think that we'd come to a true conclusion if we simply ignored it. TP doesn't work on Lobo because he too has tech that denies mind domination.

So where do we go from there? Do we venture to other possibilities, or outcomes? In other words, when does this become a physical confrontation, and what happens when we consider Apoc's ability to physically enthrall opponent's vs Despero's brawler type of fighting. Was it PIS when Aquaman hurt Despero?

Well considering in the very same issue Despero was surviving reentry whilst fighting MMH....you tell me. Personally, yes, I consider it PIS. But there you go.

TP doesn't work on Lobo....BUT we know that TP DOES work on Apoc. So it's really not the right analogy.

Originally posted by MrMind
I failed to see how this fight is close when you consider their average showings are on completely different tiers. Despero is a team buster that's capable of taking down elite teams like JLA. apocalypse fuk with X Men. I'm not brushed up on x men at all but from what I've seen apoc is not much above other villains like magneto if at all. And someone like magneto would be not be the top tier of teams like JLA or JSA

Nur stalemated HE who stalemated Galactus for a while, who had to resort to BFR 😎

Does HE have telepathy?

Yes, among many other powers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well considering in the very same issue Despero was surviving reentry whilst fighting MMH....you tell me. Personally, yes, I consider it PIS. But there you go.

TP doesn't work on Lobo....BUT we know that TP DOES work on Apoc. So it's really not the right analogy.

What instance are you referring to concerning Apoc being affected by TP?

Has Despero ever been bested in TP?

Originally posted by Stoic
What instance are you referring to concerning Apoc being affected by TP?

With Jean Grey.

Although, he couldn't access the astral plane himself, and needed Cable to help him as he didn't have the power to do so.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
With Jean Grey.

He also mentioned how he would prepare for such an assault in the future 😉

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Although, he couldn't access the astral plane himself, and needed Cable to help him as he didn't have the power to do so.

True.

At the same time, Cable thought it'd be wise to psionically "hide" Invisible Woman from Nur, iirc.

Apocalypse is one of those weird characters, whose powers haven't been well defined. Resistance to psionics is something that seems to be a standard part of his powerset, though.

616, TAS, other realities, too.

Problem with Desp is that he seems to be able to penetrate most defenses, right?