Originally posted by h1a8
There is no double standard. If a character's shows something at least once then it is a viable tactic. You were saying that a character will do shit he hasn't shown once.
Wrong, I posted two different fights where Cap used the tactics Nib mentioned.
So, when you claimed the tactics were OOC. were you mistaken or lying?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Wrong, I posted two different fights where Cap used the tactics Nib mentioned.So, when you claimed the tactics were OOC. were you mistaken or lying?
Wrong. You posted shit that wasn't the tactics he stated.
Originally posted by h1a8
Look at my postTackled + take to ground + fought on ground
Red skull example is Cap pushing Red skull into chair with shield.
No take down and no fight on the ground there.Endgame example has Cap counter a punch with a judo throw. He didn't tackle and take to the ground.
Incorrect, that quote is what you stated, not nib. Nib listed and again this is a direct quote "Anyone with a casual understanding of MMA (those who watch MMA fights for example) would know that this leaves you open to shots/tackles/grapples/grabs/takedowns/etc" and "Then Cap wins via choke/submission/ground and ground."
I then provided two fights where Cap used those tactics. so were you mistaken or lying when you claimed that Nib was using OOC tactics?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Incorrect, that quote is what you stated, not nib. Nib listed and again this is a direct quote "Anyone with a casual understanding of MMA (those who watch MMA fights for example) would know that this leaves you open to shots/tackles/grapples/grabs/takedowns/etc" and "Then Cap wins via choke/submission/ground and ground."I then provided two fights where Cap used those tactics. so were you mistaken or lying when you claimed that Nib was using OOC tactics?
You left out something important. This is what he said
If Comedian = tackles Ozy
And Cap > Comedian in speed/strength and > skill in grappling
Then Cap => tackle OzyIf Cap grappling > Ozy grappling (where Ozy grappling = 0)
Then Cap wins via choke/submission/ground and pound.Irrefutable logic
Basically Cap wins by tackling Ozy to the ground, then submission or ground and pound. Cap never did that.
In one scene he pushed Red skull away (not tackle him).
In another scene he caught a punch from Cap and Judo threw him down.
Nowhere did Cap tackle someone to the ground or even tackle someone period.
It's the combination NIB was arguing.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Cap has feats of tackling someone to the ground and also has feats of ground and pounding. I don't see what the issue here is.
Show a clip of him tackling someone to the ground.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Once again, the examples I provided show Captain America using the tactis nib mentioned.So once again, were you merely mistaken or did you lie when you claimed those tactics were out of character?
I'm done. You have no idea what you are talking about. Just another one of your trolling mind games.
Here we go, first the two I've already mentioned
1. Cap tackles Red Skull into the flight chair
2. Cap grapples with his younger self
Now, some new ones
3. Cap tackles a soldier off an armored vehicle in his first movie
4. Cap grabs a chitauri in a headlock and then throws him over a railing in Avengers
5. Cap tackles Batroc in Winter Soldier
6-9. Cap uses throws against four people in Winter Soldier
10. Cap throws Iron-man to the ground and then procedes to ground and pound him with the shield in Civil War.
/Thread over.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Cap tackles Batroc to the ground and KOs him with a punch.I await the goalposts that will surely be moved from this.
😄
I can see if you gave proof and I denied it.
With that said, tactic won't work on Ozy for the reasons I gave.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Here we go, first the two I've already mentioned1. Cap tackles Red Skull into the flight chair
2. Cap grapples with his younger selfNow, some new ones
3. Cap tackles a soldier off an armored vehicle in his first movie
4. Cap grabs a chitauri in a headlock and then throws him over a railing in Avengers
5. Cap tackles Batroc in Winter Soldier
6-9. Cap uses throws against four people in Winter Soldier
10. Cap throws Iron-man to the ground and then procedes to ground and pound him with the shield in Civil War./Thread over.
We are talking about tackling someone to the ground and then either submission or ground and pound. That entire combination. Everything else is irrelevant.
The closest we have is Cap tackling Batroc through a door onto the ground (after Batroc is basically out of it) and punching him. That would count as proving in character.
No, we are talking about the tactics Nib listed, which you claimed were OOC. again Nib listed "shots/tackles/grapples/grabs/takedowns/etc" all my examples qualify.
/Thread
Edit: However even following your strawman. the Batroc and Iron-man examples qualify. which means your claim of OOC was wrong. plus, all the throws count for taking people to the ground.
Originally posted by Silent Master
No, we are talking about the tactics Nib listed, which you claimed were OOC. again Nib listed "shots/tackles/grapples/grabs/takedowns/etc" all my examples qualify./Thread
Edit: However even following your strawman. the Batroc and Iron-man examples qualify. which means your claim of OOC was wrong. plus, all the throws count for taking people to the ground.
He pointed out comedian tackling Ozy.
His point was that Cap can do the same with additional submission or ground and pound. This is a specific combination that's relevant to the discussion. Your initial examples showed none of that.
If you don't understand that then too bad.
Throws don't count because that would require Ozy to be grabbed without defense. Remember, my argument is that Ozy won't get touched. Tackling is relevant (but faulty) since Ozy was shown to be pushed into the wall.
This isn't about your argument, it's about Nib's argument that you falsely labeled OOC. and Nib listed multiple tactics, tactis that I've proven Cap has used multiple times.
However even if we restrict this to your strawnan of Nib's argument. the Batroc and Iron-man examples prove that you're wrong about it being OOC.
I notice h1’s pivot here. He knows he’s busted on his double standard (using potential for Ares but require absolute specificity vs Cap) so he’s attempting to take the discussion to a different direction so ppl may forget. That way he can mash the report button over “thread derailment” so that he can get out of the debate (as it is going badly for him).
I say focus on his double standard (as that is relevant to the thread).
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I notice h1’s pivot here. He knows he’s busted on his double standard (using potential for Ares but require absolute specificity vs Cap) so he’s attempting to take the discussion to a different direction so ppl may forget. That way he can mash the report button over “thread derailment” so that he can get out of the debate (as it is going badly for him).I say focus on his double standard (as that is relevant to the thread).
This is wrong. If I knew it was in character for Cap to do then I would have just argued that the tactic will fail (I did actually since I argued multiple rebuttals). Wouldn't have even argued the OOC angle at all.
Do you see how quickly I conceded once you gave the right example?
That proves there was no double standard present at all. If it were then I wouldn't have argued against clear onscreen evidence. I even asked for proof many posts ago.
So you can focus on anything that you like.
Fact is that Ares wins here.
Originally posted by h1a8
This is wrong. If I knew it was in character for Cap to do then I would have just argued that the tactic will fail (I did actually since I argued multiple rebuttals). Wouldn't have even argued the OOC angle at all.Do you see how quickly I conceded once you gave the right example?
That proves there was no double standard present at all. If it were then I wouldn't have argued against clear onscreen evidence. I even asked for proof many posts ago.So you can focus on anything that you like.
Fact is that Ares wins here.
That doesn't address your double standard though. why argue using potential for Ares but require absolute specificity vs Cap. after all. all 10 of my examples would qualify under potential for Cap. yet you only accepted two of them.
Originally posted by Silent Master
That doesn't address your double standard though. why argue using potential for Ares but require absolute specificity vs Cap. after all. all 10 of my examples would qualify under potential for Cap. yet you only accepted two of them.
Fighting style is what the argument is about. A striker isn't suddenly going to go for a tackle and submission/ground and pound. That’s why specificity is relevant.
In Ares case, he never faced a Hela like character that can throw blades at him. Therefore we can use potential based off his intelligence, power set, as specific feats.
Ares would have to fight like an idiot not to use TK or teleportation to avoid blades thrown at him. Ares tactics are more common sense than anything. Remember I stated barring CIS.