question for the "pronoun people"

Originally posted by Surtur
End of the day: nobody has the right to try to force u to use a pronoun.

And no, if someone doesn't wanna call Bruce Jenner a woman it doesn't mean they don't recognize he is a human being, etc.

True, I never thought that trans people are not humans lol. I also agree that no one has a right to force you to use a certain pronoun but, as I said, if a trans woman does a good job of actually looking and sounding like an actual woman then I have no problem calling "her" a "she".

Originally posted by Surtur
Here is just as good a place as any to do this: lets explore this animus towards DDM you have.

What did he do to you? I'm being serious. It can't be the gaslighting you accuse him of, since if that really bothered you then you wouldn't be so close to Rob and Bash.

So what happened?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
I don't agree with gays being able to serve in the military either, scribble. Which is why I specifically brought up LGBTQ community in my post.

Originally posted by Scribble
I personally think that entire concept is bunk. GD is a genuine condition that causes a form of body dysmorphia, where you feel that your physical form does not match up with your brain. It's similar to Cotard syndrome (where the individual believes their body, or part of their body, is dead, dying or not 'theirs'😉, but also with more societal links (since the concept of 'gender' has some truths to it, gender can definitely be performative).

But GD is a mental condition that causes suffering. I've lived with it for 16 years, I think I should know, y'know. Even when I'm passing well, I still feel like a faker, a fraud; and even if I got my bits chopped and took hormones, I know I'd feel the same way.

It's the being born 'wrong' bit that makes it a mental condition.

But it may ease your dysphoria.

Also Scrib if you will remember, you have had some changes in terms of your identity.

Well obviously you remember, but what I'm saying is you probably also remember times when I did refer to you as female. One of my "what u doing guuurl" type posts.

Though I did sometimes slip up and refer to you as a he. And then you said you changed how you identify.

Point is I made an effort and there is no reason for me to do it if I despise all trans people, etc.

Originally posted by StyleTime
On an individual level, anything from social exclusion to physical violence. On a societal level, discriminatory legislation, like Trump trying to ban transgender people from the military.

How is that a result of not using a certain pronoun?

Originally posted by Scribble
Answer the rest of my ting then. Why not? Like, it's not that hard to incorporate them, really.

So you say. I disagree though that it's so easy to get around those issues.

Originally posted by StyleTime
👆

"They" makes sense to me, as there are non-binary people. I'm still not convinced of the "ze, zim, zer" stuff quite yet. I'm keeping an open mind but I don't know if every single gradation of gender presentation warrants its own pro-noun. It seems like she/he/they already covers it.

It's like...you're a chick who wears sneakers and prefers red over pink, so your pronoun is "ghlim" or something. I get lost at that point.

The pronouns ze/zim/zir are for people who are intersex, i.e. not male or female; he/she/they is sufficient for most others.

The issue with unique pronouns is that the effectively become proper nouns. The whole point of pronouns is to be able to refer to someone without knowing his name. If your pronouns are not common, and people have to be told them, then it is functionally no different than expecting them to know your first name without having met you before.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also Scrib if you will remember, you have had some changes in terms of your identity.

Well obviously you remember, but what I'm saying is you probably also remember times when I did refer to you as female. One of my "what u doing guuurl" type posts.

Though I did sometimes slip up and refer to you as a he. And then you said you changed how you identify.

Point is I made an effort and there is no reason for me to do it if I despise all trans people, etc.

Now call me 'man'... if you dare crackers

haermm

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
But it may ease your dysphoria.

Originally posted by Scribble
Surely they could find ways around this. Options for third bathrooms, unisex bathrooms.

This is just the same shit as gay people in the military. It has nothing to do with the people themselves, just the ideological position you assume these people to be a part of.

These things are largely pretty easy to work around. You do realise LBG and TQ+ people are like, people, right? So they can be dealt with in human ways. It's not that hard. You ever met some butch lesbians? They're hard as ****.

Gay and lesbian people use sex-segregated facilities with people to whom they are attracted with no issues. If the straights could manage it, there would be no need for sex-segregated facilities at all.

Originally posted by Scribble
You've made plenty of effort. For someone I didn't expect it from, I highly respect that... man.

Now call me 'man'... if you dare crackers

haermm

Well what are you currently identifying as?!

Originally posted by Scribble
Easing it does not make it nonexistent. Therapy massively reduced my GD, like, to an insane amount. But people are more than happy to jump to scissors and inversions, and in fact, current mainstream narrative thinks that therapy for GD is a kind of 'gay conversion therapy', which is idiocy incarnate.

Sure, but we do not live in a perfect world. There rarely exists a magic bullet solution that is going to eliminate our problems. But you may be able to achieve further or greater reductions with those tools.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Sure, but we do not live in a perfect world. There rarely exists a magic bullet solution that is going to eliminate our problems. But you may be able to achieve further or greater reductions with those tools.

Personally, hormones and surgery ain't for me, but I'm a super squick when it comes to medical stuff.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well what are you currently identifying as?!

the magic bullet was used up on JFK

Tragic

Originally posted by Surtur
the magic bullet was used up on JFK

Tragic

Just throw in some fresh batteries and you'll be good 2 go. 😉

Originally posted by Scribble
Sho 'nuff. Can't disagree.

Personally, hormones and surgery ain't for me, but I'm a super squick when it comes to medical stuff.

Many trans folks worry that they will pursue medical interventions and still not pass, and will wish they had not pursued them at all. But very rarely does that turn out to be the case. More often than not, they wish they had done it sooner, because they could have been happier instead of worrying about things that did not happen.

if it's a social construct why is surgery even needed, just believe

My girlfriend’s friend is with a m to f trans. He did hormone therapy and I wouldn’t have guessed that he used to be a female. He looks and acts just like any other guy. Even has some facial hair.