Re: The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!
This thread is WEIRD Galan, Phil, and I mean that sincerely.
Top Tier American Hero characters or what KMC people call Herald Class have feats ranging from street level to solar system to universal and beyond in some cases.
Take the case of just Kyle Rayner.
He has done it all (planetary, solar system, etc) has he not?
Everything from Kyle Rayner blocking a supernova to containing the Big Bang. He can perform feats ranging from DB, DBZ, to DBS? Where would he rank?
There was a great thread Silver Surver vs Green Lantern
where feat after feat of everything from John Stewart's forcefield holding against a supernova to him and Sinestro firing blasts so powerful they give off nova level power was posted
https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=622799&pagenumber=3
Feats not even hinted at in DBZ until I believe SSJ2 Gohan and Cell at the end of the Cell Saga.
And those feats aren't even the best of what top tiers have accomplished is posted in that thread.
But that is not their "average" but just some of their feats right? So does these feats not exist? Does a random GL overpowering a black hole that can destroy an entire space sector not count because of power level inconsistency? Does that not apply to DBZ as well? Or does a character have to display the same power every single issue or is it null and void?
Does the herald level character have to perform a certain arbitrary number of above planetary feats for it to count and soldify their standings? Or is all their feats deemed as outliers when ever they get above a level that makes a DB character look bad?
People like to extrapolate what someone at a lower level did in DBZ means at such and such higher level they can do X amount of destruction or strength.
This is fine but doesn't always work.
Because characters aren't as powerful or fast as they should be in some cases. Case in point Goku in the majin buu saga having to go SSJ just to handle 40 tons. Or Gotenks at SSJ1 still not hitting light speed zooming around the planet. Or Goku in Dragonball Super episode 68 needing to wear a protective suit to go to the inner core of the planet.
Bulma says, "Bring me this material from the earth's core. Then you can have your wish."
Goku says, "Huh? From the earth's core? Won't I die if I go here?"
Bulma replies, "My company's special suit can take it, so you'll be fine."
You can also do powerscaling for western comics as well. How powerful is the Upside Down Man? Where would he rank in DBZ? Swamp Thing, a hero takes him out, where does he rank now? Krona with all the emotional entities ranks where? Hal Jordan takes him out straight up, where does Hal rank now? Anti-Monitor ranks where? Wally West shreds his armor and nearly takes him out, where does he rank now? And on and on...
You can take two approaches to this DBZ vs Western Comic characters argument in my eyes.
One, think if Nappa showed up on DC or Marvel Earth. A guy fast enough to blitz armies and Speed Demon speedsters while causally firing city destroying energy blasts and possible Moon destroying attacks. Strength wise, stronger than Spider-Man (ignoring the Daily Bugle, Train lifting feats), and durable enough to not survive lava but take huge city and mountain leveling ki blasts.
Where would he rank? Is there any doubt that top tier characters like Thor, Blackbolt, etc... would have to get involved? Or would you put in the Human Torch listed at High Meta, and focus on the showings where his nova flame is at planet to supposed star level to take him out?
Two, think if John Bryne's Gladiator showed up on Dragonball Earth. A guy 100X the speed of light, strong enough to shatter the planet with 5 punches, durable enough to survive inside of stars, heat vision as hot as a star, and capable of containing Nova Level explosions.
Where would he rank? Would you sit back and say, yeah Raditz can fight that guy because he's X amount of times faster than Master Roshi and Krillin's super speed in Dragonball and could take the strongest ki blasts from that series including Moon destroying blasts with no problem.
Or would you immediately pick up the phone and call the strongest Z fighters to get over here and fight this beast that by demonstrable feats is literally light years beyond the visible feats in the saiyan and namek sagas since Super Pefect Cell is the first confirmed statement of reaching solar system level fire power?
To me, these two stances are BOTH TRUE, which is why DBZ will be argued until the end of time, as it comes down to personal perspective (people dismissing feats from heralds that are above planet level and disregarding them because of inconsistency?), character averages (which is made up head cannon because there is no average between a John Bryne Superman that fights Toyman and one that stalemates Molly the Keeper written by Bryan Hitch).
By the way this reminds me of Invincible where Power Scaling is used in place of feats that are definitely Sub Planetary for the Viltrumites to justify them being at levels on par with heralds and more.
I think the definition of what is HERALD LEVEL needs to be defined first. What is the Full Capacity of what that level means? How do you decide what feats are outliers, what feats aren't?
Cause what you're trying to do here is place Saiyan Saga at herald levels and scale up from there but it doesn't really work when FEATS and STATEMENTS from later DB arcs are not beyond what herald level characters have been seen doing all the way to DBS. And this never really changes...