Originally posted by cdtmGood point. They picked up the blocks and dropped them on heads. They weren't throwing them at all, and throwing "unbreakable" blocks wouldn't add any sort of force.
Who said anything about empowered? It sure wasn't said in the show, either implied or otherwise.I'm not sure its ever even been shown Dragon Ball characters can use chi like that. I mean, Trunks sure wasn't, when he was fighting the androids, Goku, or even Freeza (He said it was just a regular sword, I believe)
But yes, Goku and Vegeta were powering up the Katchin with their pure strength alone. That's what I meant.
Also you just referenced the Super anime (and this part is entirely based on it) so I don't get how you're questioning your own strawman when you know for a fact you almost had a heart attack when Trunks made his broken sword into a ki sword? Or the Yardrat fight Vegeta had against not-Zarbon.
Now you shift to contrasting the sword with a Deadpool katana or something I imagine?
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Good point. They picked up the blocks and dropped them on heads. They weren't throwing them at all, and throwing "unbreakable" blocks wouldn't add any sort of force.
Hulk throwing a 2 ton rock is exactly the same as Spider-Man chucking one for instance.But yes, Goku and Vegeta were powering up the Katchin with their pure strength alone. That's what I meant.
Also you just referenced the Super anime (and this part is entirely based on it) so I don't get how you're questioning your own strawman when you know for a fact you almost had a heart attack when Trunks made his broken sword into a ki sword? Or the Yardrat fight Vegeta had against not-Zarbon.
Now you shift to contrasting the sword with a Deadpool katana or something I imagine?
Before I go into it, I have a question.
Are we talking about the same indestructible material that was broken up by everything? 😛
I mean, Master Roshie was kicking up rubble from his foot falls.
Originally posted by cdtmYes, harder metal than the one that shattered the Z-Sword was fodder to their power. It's still not ordinary rock being propelled by gravity alone.
Before I go into it, I have a question.Are we talking about the same indestructible material that was broken up by [b]everything?
😛I mean, Master Roshie was kicking up rubble from his foot falls. [/B]
Now you can make your point.
Originally posted by cdtmno daniel.
Its a loaded question.
it's actually a very simple and straightforward question. you're just saying this to dodge it because you know what the answer will be lol.
i ask again- if a comic character had enough power to destroy the moon with a casual blast, what tier would you put their energy projection in?
Originally posted by One Big Mobwhen it comes to db, daniel is one of those "i'm right and everyone else is wrong / db is weaksause!" kind of "people".
Why are you worse than Carver, Alberto and JBL Jr combined when it comes to DB? Did you get molested while Dragon Ball was playing in the background or something? Goku was screaming from Great Rape Vegeta and it's just burned into your memory as your hairy uncle stuffs his fingers down your throat making you taste your anguish?Uncle Carver... 😖hifty:
guy acts like he's the only one who can see the "big picture" when it comes to db, but in actuality all he's trying to do is lowball to the absolute extreme. it's like some kind of strange defense mechanism certain people here have when they feel threatened. i'll never be able to wrap my head around it.
Re: Re: Re: The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
interesting post but you're over complicating the hell out of the fundamental question.lets start back at square one- if a comic character had enough power to destroy the moon with a casual blast, what tier would you put their energy projection in?
If I was going off of statements I could say....Cyclops 😆 Since he's supposed to have the power to destroy a small Moon. Or say the Mandarin since his rings are supposed to be that powerlevel and more. But I can also say Herald Level like Nate Grey who destroyed a Moon. See the answer is over complicated because its based on showings which vary under different writers and KMC's own Tiering system terminology which already has a hero under constantly powering up mechanics ranked at High Meta despite his many powerups over 50 years of comics.
Iron Man.
Iron Man in his original GOLD Suit back in the 60s could arm wrestle with Thor, fast forward to 2020 and he's had like 50+ armors, each more powerful than the previous ones that fought Hulk, Silver Sufer, Thor, etc...and yet he's still just High Meta.
Is there any doubt that if Tony in his latest armor fights those past armors he's going to annihilate their titanium plated butts? Here's a great respect thread done by ODG that chronicles the sheer amount of powerups in strength, speed, power, etc that Tony's armors have evolved over the years
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=604601&pagenumber=2
But you'll notice going through this thread that despite the dozens of armors and powerups....Iron Man still doesn't look any different fighting Herald Level characters than he did back in the 60s.
The hiearchy has remained the same. His feats really haven't gotten more raw powerful. He's not splitting stars in half or anything or smashing planet apart right? Yet each armor is substanially better than the last, more versatilie, better force fields & repulsors, more strength and technopathy (they like to say its a quanutm leap forward in tech and ability) yet he's still only going to be capable of staggering the Hulk and draining energy from Thor or Silver Sufer or whatever Herald he's fighting in an uphill battle that isn't any different than what we've seen before in terms of relative character portrayals unless Iron Man jumps in a specified Phoenix Buster type armor.
Dozens of powerups and armors, still just High Meta. If you were to just employ power scaling and not feats you'd literally end up with Iron Man being skyfather or borderline abstract tier since his current armor is light years ahead of his Mark I armor that was damn near Thor level in strength back in the 60s!
Thats the Iron Man effect that DB is under sometimes. Each transformation more powerful than last, capable of beating up previous transformations and foes with the latest Super Saiya-jin Model yet the feats look identical and Goku is still under Beerus or whoever in raw power despite having 4 or 5 new tranformations Saiyan Beyond God, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Ultra Instinct Omen, Ultra Instinct Sign, Mastered Ultra Instinct, and I forgot Super Saiyan God Kaio-Ken X 20!
Yet is he stronger than a universal+ character like Beerus? If the answer is no then what does all these tranformations mean in the long run other than he's weaker than a universal+ guy like Beerus? You see, all the tranformations don't really change the hierarchy (not yet at least) and just show the progressive character arc of always getting better and improving oneself.
Iron Man is going to get another DOZEN plus new armors over the next twenty years that make his current armor look like a Halloween costume in relative power and capability right? Guess what, he's still probably only going to be High Meta and still have the same uphill competitive fights with heralds that he always does despite being hundreds of times more powerful than his old Gold Suit that could arm wrestle Thor back in the 60s.
So when I look at DBZ from Saiyan Saga to the Majin Buu saga I see that same Iron Man effect. So if I said the whole DBZ series (not counting some of the characters in Super) was just varying degrees of Herald Level I wouldn't be low balling them because KMC already has a character they place at High Meta that has a similiar dozens of powerups over the years yet by FEATS not power scaling his armor doesn't qualify for a higher level placement.
DB characters also suffer from a Green Lantern effect of power usage shenanigans where say someone like Freeza utilizing 1% of his power can destroy a planet with one finger 😉, yet is no different that what he can do using 100% of his power in form 4 on Planet Nameck with a power level 120 million Gajillion more than his one finger attack but he can only destroy this planet with his most powerful death ball attack, that takes several minutes to blow up the planet, ridiculous. Reminds me of a GL saying hey this ring has a less than 1% charge of energy but I'm going to use it to do some crazy cosmic feat! So now imagine if the ring was 100% Full POWER and now I can only do the same thing I just did at 1% power....or less in some cases.
And to throw a spanner in the works...
Superman, whilst dying and weak, trapped with no sun.... shattered a planet by jumping off it.
Shall we power scale from that? His normal self is now capable of what, shattering stars?
His SUNDIPPED self, capable of what, shattering galaxies? No.
Batman, without wearing his suit, whilst injured, was sucked punched by a WW who had the GoW amp, and was out to kill him.
So do we say Batman wearing his normal suit is High Herald in durability? Wearing a special suit makes him trans? No.
Switch to Marvel. Colossus is a High Meta purely as a brick. So I now give him the amp from Cytorrak. Juggernaut is a Mid Herald on his lonesome, so stacking Colossus (who has fought evenly with a High Herald in Gladiator) should at least make Colossaunaut a High Herald.
Then I give him 20% of the Phoenix Force. We all know where THAT tiers. So Colossaunaut with PF should be around the abstract tier, capable of smacking multiple Celestials about. But he doesn't. Hell, he doesn't even manage to KO Spiderman lol.
Originally posted by Sensui
If I was going off of statements I could say....Cyclops 😆 Since he's supposed to have the power to destroy a small Moon. Or say the Mandarin since his rings are supposed to be that powerlevel and more. But I can also say Herald Level like Nate Grey who destroyed a Moon. See the answer is over complicated because its based on showings which vary under different writers and KMC's own Tiering system terminology which already has a hero under constantly powering up mechanics ranked at High Meta despite his many powerups over 50 years of comics.Iron Man.
Iron Man in his original GOLD Suit back in the 60s could arm wrestle with Thor, fast forward to 2020 and he's had like 50+ armors, each more powerful than the previous ones that fought Hulk, Silver Sufer, Thor, etc...and yet he's still just High Meta.
Is there any doubt that if Tony in his latest armor fights those past armors he's going to annihilate their titanium plated butts? Here's a great respect thread done by ODG that chronicles the sheer amount of powerups in strength, speed, power, etc that Tony's armors have evolved over the years
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=604601&pagenumber=2But you'll notice going through this thread that despite the dozens of armors and powerups....Iron Man still doesn't look any different fighting Herald Level characters than he did back in the 60s.
The hiearchy has remained the same. His feats really haven't gotten more raw powerful. He's not splitting stars in half or anything or smashing planet apart right? Yet each armor is substanially better than the last, more versatilie, better force fields & repulsors, more strength and technopathy (they like to say its a quanutm leap forward in tech and ability) yet he's still only going to be capable of staggering the Hulk and draining energy from Thor or Silver Sufer or whatever Herald he's fighting in an uphill battle that isn't any different than what we've seen before in terms of relative character portrayals unless Iron Man jumps in a specified Phoenix Buster type armor.
Dozens of powerups and armors, still just High Meta. If you were to just employ power scaling and not feats you'd literally end up with Iron Man being skyfather or borderline abstract tier since his current armor is light years ahead of his Mark I armor that was damn near Thor level in strength back in the 60s!
Thats the Iron Man effect that DB is under sometimes. Each transformation more powerful than last, capable of beating up previous transformations and foes with the latest Super Saiya-jin Model yet the feats look identical and Goku is still under Beerus or whoever in raw power despite having 4 or 5 new tranformations Saiyan Beyond God, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Ultra Instinct Omen, Ultra Instinct Sign, Mastered Ultra Instinct, and I forgot Super Saiyan God Kaio-Ken X 20!
Yet is he stronger than a universal+ character like Beerus? If the answer is no then what does all these tranformations mean in the long run other than he's weaker than a universal+ guy like Beerus? You see, all the tranformations don't really change the hierarchy (not yet at least) and just show the progressive character arc of always getting better and improving oneself.
Iron Man is going to get another DOZEN plus new armors over the next twenty years that make his current armor look like a Halloween costume in relative power and capability right? Guess what, he's still probably only going to be High Meta and still have the same uphill competitive fights with heralds that he always does despite being hundreds of times more powerful than his old Gold Suit that could arm wrestle Thor back in the 60s.
So when I look at DBZ from Saiyan Saga to the Majin Buu saga I see that same Iron Man effect. So if I said the whole DBZ series (not counting some of the characters in Super) was just varying degrees of Herald Level I wouldn't be low balling them because KMC already has a character they place at High Meta that has a similiar dozens of powerups over the years yet by FEATS not power scaling his armor doesn't qualify for a higher level placement.
DB characters also suffer from a Green Lantern effect of power usage shenanigans where say someone like Freeza utilizing 1% of his power can destroy a planet with one finger 😉, yet is no different that what he can do using 100% of his power in form 4 on Planet Nameck with a power level 120 million Gajillion more than his one finger attack but he can only destroy this planet with his most powerful death ball attack, that takes several minutes to blow up the planet, ridiculous. Reminds me of a GL saying hey this ring has a less than 1% charge of energy but I'm going to use it to do some crazy cosmic feat! So now imagine if the ring was 100% Full POWER and now I can only do the same thing I just did at 1% power....or less in some cases.
We have to assign a baseline between DBZ and comics, destroying a moon is the most basic feat in DBZ by Roshi and Piccolo. We have to check the average of comic books heralds who on average can destroy a moon. Otherwise it'd be near impossible to compare these two fictional mediums.
Re: Re: The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!
Originally posted by SensuiSee, that is the problem with not understanding how comic books work, going by an exaggerated version of forum mentality where the top feats are what is understood the character as functionally operating.
This thread is WEIRD Galan, Phil, and I mean that sincerely.Top Tier American Hero characters or what KMC people call Herald Class have feats ranging from street level to solar system to universal and beyond in some cases.
Take the case of just Kyle Rayner.
He has done it all (planetary, solar system, etc) has he not?
Everything from Kyle Rayner blocking a supernova to containing the Big Bang. He can perform feats ranging from DB, DBZ, to DBS? Where would he rank?
It can also be called "I only argue based on what I see in respect threads"
Take, for example, now that you mentioned it, Kyle containing the big bang. That feat would mean that he could contain tens -- hundreds of herald tier characters, and they could never get out. Now, thinking about it rationally, instead of "THIS FEAT!" mentality, you'd realize that if I put Kyle against the combined might of all these characters, for example:
Captain Marvel (DC), Cassandra Nova, Cheetah, Citizen Steel, Conquest, Count Nefaria, Damage, Damien Hellstrom, Dr. Doom, Eradicator (non-Fortress Mode), Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, The General (Shaggy Man), Gladiator, Graviton, Grayven, Green Lanterns (Guy Gardner, Icon (Milestone), Jessica Cruz, John Stewart, Katma, Kilowog, Simon Baz, Sodam Yat), Hulk, Hyperion, Invincible, Juggernaut (Classic), Kang, Kid Omega, Kurse, Lobo, Loki, Maestro, Magneto (616), Magus (Post-IG), Manchester Black, Mantis (New God), Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Spectrum), Moonstone (w/ both stones), Morg, Nate Grey, O.M.A.C., Omni-Man, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sersi, Shadowman, Shaman, Skreet, Star Sapphire (Carol Ferris), Stardust, Supergirl, Supreme (original), Ultron, Void (Wildstorm, no Creation Engine power), White Martians, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form)
...even if you literally add their feats and they don't come anywhere near the big bang but, comic book readers that we are, we know that functionally, on average, that's not how this works.
If you make a thread where you put Kyle vs Cable, Magneto, Doom, Eradicator, Black Adam, Juggernaut, Morg, etc. etc. all at once, and use the big bang feat to say "lol, they'll never touch him", you'd get laughed at for a few pages, then the thread would be closed.
Which takes us to..
Originally posted by SensuiThe average exists because we read comics, not feats. We understand that, for the vast majority of time, characters don't operate at 'casual moon busting' level.
But that is not their "average" but just some of their feats right? So does these feats not exist? Does a random GL overpowering a black hole that can destroy an entire space sector not count because of power level inconsistency? Does that not apply to DBZ as well? Or does a character have to display the same power every single issue or is it null and void?
Dragon Ball function on a specific parameter [ki], under a specific scaling [powerlevels], under a specific writer [Akira]. They don't need to moon-bust every issue, since the internal consistency is fairly well contained and understood given the aforementioned parameters don't vary significantly.
Comics, on the other hand have a much bigger variance in both both magnitude and frequency.
Originally posted by abhilegend👆
The problem lies with the ridiculous inconsistency in comics. Yes, Lanterns have great feats as posted (I posted most of the feats) but far lower ones too and their increase in power is not as much emphasized in comics.We have to assign a baseline between DBZ and comics, destroying a moon is the most basic feat in DBZ by Roshi and Piccolo. We have to check the average of comic books heralds who on average can destroy a moon. Otherwise it'd be near impossible to compare these two fictional mediums.
It's why it's important to set a baseline [and you really need quite a vast array of comic book knowledge by reading and understanding general portrayal] to have a proper starting point.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
The fact that the powerlevel of DB charcters stacks with time was pointed out years ago several times. It was just that the other side refused to accept that which made every type of discussion pointless.
Yeah, but now even the Superman fans agree with the DB supporters.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The problem lies with the ridiculous inconsistency in comics. Yes, Lanterns have great feats as posted (I posted most of the feats) but far lower ones too and their increase in power is not as much emphasized in comics.We have to assign a baseline between DBZ and comics, destroying a moon is the most basic feat in DBZ by Roshi and Piccolo. We have to check the average of comic books heralds who on average can destroy a moon. Otherwise it'd be near impossible to compare these two fictional mediums.
It is almost impossible. It really is and not just DBZ its imo any shonen jump manga series because they are based on this character stronger than the next as you go on a narrative journey of the character getting stronger and stronger hence the power scaling that is utilized to cover for a lack of feats the further up you go.
I'll give you an example of another shonen manga Yu Yu Hakusho. In it there is a character named Toguro who has muscle manipulation as his power. At 100% of his strength he is capable of literally crushing an energy ball powerful enough to destroy a mountain with his chest muscles just by flexing easy.
Where does he rank in DC or Marvel? It's a trick question because if you say heck thats a Top Tier feat and only the best heroes could do that so he must rank at Class 100 levels the Yu Yu Hakusho fan would say ha I got you because you see in the world of Yu Yu Hakusho that character Toguro is only a B-Class level demon and they go all the way to S-Class, which is so strong they can beat 500 A-Class demons, who can beat 500 B-Class Toguro demons at once! My verse is the strongest 😮💨
Then you would ask what is the most powerful feat the S-Class can do? An the Yu Yu Hakusho fan would say oh they can destroy a planet (supposedly, this is stated several times but never seen). And you say thats all? Well in DC or Marvel characters like so and so can do way more than that so No the B-Class isn't comparable to the top Class 100 heroes. The Yu Yu Hakusho fan would say but Toguro's feat which is a BASELINE for weak fodder B-Class demons was agreed upon that it was a feat worthy of being Class 100? How are the characters still only Class 100 at A-S Class powerlevels when they can destroy 500 B-Class demons with a single punch?
The Power Scaling says they should be much greater in DC or Marvel but the FEAT & STATEMENTS of only being capable of destroying the Earth at maximum power at S-Class says otherwise.
Thats the exact same issue with DBZ and all shonens imo, the Lantern feats don't go away just because you're comparing them to Anime characters otherwise they shouldn't be used when compared to Marvel characters or Invincible characters since that's not eithers average why are they being discussed and disected in 99% of threads if they don't represent the characters average (which is a head cannon as there is no average between a Thor that is nearly speed blitzed by Spiderman or Mongoose and one that is fighting Gorr in space).
Flash is one of the worse at this (Barry, Wally, whoever)...He has problems with fighting the Rogues consistently but then at any time a writer wants to has the character warp the Multiverse because of Speed Force shenanigans.
Where does he rank specifically in DBZ?
Well on KMC he's not going to be listed at abstract/skyfather tiers or even trans tiers but placed into the all ambigous Herald Level Tier. Which seems to be just a catch all for any top tier hero no matter what type of feats they perform. So why should DBZ be any different?
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
See, that is the problem with not understanding how comic books work, going by an exaggerated version of forum mentality where the top feats are what is understood the character as functionally operating.It can also be called "I only argue based on what I see in respect threads"
Take, for example, now that you mentioned it, Kyle containing the big bang. That feat would mean that he could contain tens -- hundreds of herald tier characters, and they could never get out. Now, thinking about it rationally, instead of "THIS FEAT!" mentality, you'd realize that if I put Kyle against the combined might of all these characters, for example:
Captain Marvel (DC), Cassandra Nova, Cheetah, Citizen Steel, Conquest, Count Nefaria, Damage, Damien Hellstrom, Dr. Doom, Eradicator (non-Fortress Mode), Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, The General (Shaggy Man), Gladiator, Graviton, Grayven, Green Lanterns (Guy Gardner, Icon (Milestone), Jessica Cruz, John Stewart, Katma, Kilowog, Simon Baz, Sodam Yat), Hulk, Hyperion, Invincible, Juggernaut (Classic), Kang, Kid Omega, Kurse, Lobo, Loki, Maestro, Magneto (616), Magus (Post-IG), Manchester Black, Mantis (New God), Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Spectrum), Moonstone (w/ both stones), Morg, Nate Grey, O.M.A.C., Omni-Man, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sersi, Shadowman, Shaman, Skreet, Star Sapphire (Carol Ferris), Stardust, Supergirl, Supreme (original), Ultron, Void (Wildstorm, no Creation Engine power), White Martians, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form)
...even if you literally add their feats and they don't come anywhere near the big bang but, comic book readers that we are, we know that functionally, on average, that's not how this works.
If you make a thread where you put Kyle vs Cable, Magneto, Doom, Eradicator, Black Adam, Juggernaut, Morg, etc. etc. all at once, and use the big bang feat to say "lol, they'll never touch him", you'd get laughed at for a few pages, then the thread would be closed.
Which takes us to..
What's crazy about this is we've seen GL's actually do this like Rond Vidar who literally held off the entire Legion of Supervillains, Superboy Prime, and the strongest Chaos Lord Mordru. So people may not like it, they may hate it, they may despise the showing but it still happened. I think Kyle Rayner actually held the Crime Syndicate for a whole day once so he might be able to pull it off too.
See at the moment he held that Big Bang, thanks to variable Will Power he was the strongest hero there for a moment since Supes was merging with Kismet. And there is nothing wrong with that Phil. Kyle can't do this all the time but at his absolute best why couldn't he do it again? Remember his I can destroy the universe Oblivion construct?
And on top of that I think some of these "herald level" characters have universe level feats of their own, I'm looking at you Etrigan who contributed 1/5 the energy to destroy an entire dimension 😎
So one could easily counter with that some of these characters have that level power on their own and bust out anyway. Or characters like Black Adam (through relative character showings being in the same company) may have the strength to smash his best construct since he apparently alongside Shazam are now powerful enough to walk over Superboy Prime. So there would be no inconsistency there.
See the purpose of a Vs. Battle forum is not a comic book where PIS and CIS alongside narrative reign supreme. The character is freed from those restrictions and instead is placed in a hypothetical scenario under forum guidelines to see if he can beat another character from the same fictional universe or a different medium. These guidelines vary from KMC, KMC Battlezone rules, to Death Battle methodology of max potential and best vs best composite stuff.
So how things work in comics are not what most comic battleboards are based on. They are based on Feats, statements, relative character performances, and unfortunately sh*t posting.
Every poster including you Phil, comes up with Frankenstein Superman or Frankenstein Silver Sufer, etc... in your head to debate on the forum. Similar to making a respect thread, where cherrypicking the top feats are selected for speed, strength, capability, etc to present the best Frankenstein version possible of the character and every poster does the same thing when they are debating from Batman to Galactus. You can call foul on this method of debating but I think its pretty much ingrained in many posters minds including my own.
I like that Bran came out and said what his head cannon was and that herald level equals planetary. What does Herald Level mean to you Phil?
Because there is no KMC mandate that Herald Level only equals moon level, planet level, or what have you. Because this entire DBZ discussion is hinging on made up KMC terminology that doesn't even exist in any medium outside of Marvel comics and this battleboard.
I also think the argument of "this is how comics work you don't understand you don't read comics" would affect DBZ and shonen heroes as well. If you placed one of them under the mechanics of western writing well now Goku is going to have at least 20 different writers on his series and he's going to be even more all over the place in his character portrayal.
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
The average exists because we read comics, not feats. We understand that, for the vast majority of time, characters don't operate at 'casual moon busting' level.
There is no average between characters with dozens of writers. What Dan Jurgens thinks a Skyfather is capable is completely different from Greg Pak even on the same character series like say Thor. Dan Jurgens writes Skyfathers at Planetary levels maximum having King Thor pass out rebuilding a Moon around The Gardener a terraforming threat at best, while Greg Pak is creating eldritch abominations like Glory that crushes worlds in its hands.
The average is and always has been a head cannon argument to disregard certain feats from characters for or against another. Sentry is routinely regarded as having the power of a million exploding suns, stated many times over many comics yet we know he's inconsistent as hell due to different writers with an in universe explanation of his mental state, but on the forum he wouldn't be allowed to have this power because of inconsistency? Doubtful.
Most posters that I've seen across the forum make their own version of the character from the best or worst feats as a way to equalize this inconstency that the majority of characters suffer from that were never intended to even be matched up this way on a fictional forum vs battle setting. The problem is its going to vary from poster to poster on what feats are outliers, baselines, what should the character not be able to do, what is his speed, and on and on.
Basically cherry picking and if its best vs best I don't have a problem with it but it usually isn't and that bores some posters as then its almost a character power set vs power set argument.
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
Dragon Ball function on a specific parameter [ki], under a specific scaling [powerlevels], under a specific writer [Akira]. They don't need to moon-bust every issue, since the internal consistency is fairly well contained and understood given the aforementioned parameters don't vary significantly.
Oh I disagree they vary significantly, see the mess that is now DBS where the powerscaling has gone out the window with Krillin fighting Super Saiyan Blue, and then Base Vegeta slapping around SSJ3 Gotenks, but still going SSB against SSJ2 Trunks, or Base Goku doing better in a fight against Broly than Super Saiyan Red Vegeta, and don't get me started on Tagoma Ginyu, on and on. It's worse than DBZ ever was.
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
Comics, on the other hand have a much bigger variance in both both magnitude and frequency.
True, because of the ages of these franchises and how many different writers they've had over the years. You can favor one writer over many argument for inconsistency but I think it makes it even worse when its just one writer and they have inconsistencies.
The problem all stems from the forum hierarchy created from the tier list.
Its artificial and doesn't exist in either DC or Marvel's ranking system and they have no reason to be beholden to a battleboard tier list.
DC has no reason to keep Superman's feats in line with Marvel's Thor because fans on this board think they should scale to each other.