!!!The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!

My point was that Monarch releasing universe-busting energy upon his death does not cap his power to universe-level, and his ability to match SBP with the amp he possessed leads me to believe Monarch operates above baseline universal. Especially if we take his boasts towards the Monitors (i.e. that all 52 monitors couldn”t crack his armor) or the Monitors’ abject fear of Monarch.

There”s also amped SBP’s feats against Mxy to consider. Even if Mxy was vastly weakened, he would have to be weakened to a literal infinite extent for SBP to not be beyond universal from it, given Mxy can destroy a universe as easily as you or I can put on socks.

Add the haxx that Monarch wields, and I can easily see him solo’ing DBS with low-Multiversal power + haxx.

Captain Atom/Monarch's power has always been solidly universal -- various sources over the years state that his quantum energy was like that of a big bang and such. We then saw the sum total of his power released in the aftermath of his fight with Prime, and it wiped out -a- universe. No legitimate reason to put his power beyond universal, imo.

And yeah, Mxy *was* massively weakened there -- Annataz was keeping him depowered.

Originally posted by Galan007
Captain Atom/Monarch's power has always been solidly universal -- various sources over the years state that his quantum energy was like that of a big bang and such. We then saw the sum total of his power released in the aftermath of his fight with Prime, and it wiped out -a- universe. No legitimate reason to put his power beyond universal, imo.

And yeah, Mxy *was* massively weakened there -- Annataz was keeping him depowered.

Which logically means Annataz could weaken Mxy, yet was still terrified of Superboy Prime.

No real way of lowballing that. If Mxy and Annataz could have turned on SBP, they would have. No mainstream character would be able to keep those two in check, at the same time.

And besides, the "weakening" only really seemed to keep Mxy from fleeing.

Originally posted by Galan007
Beerus alone would waste Monarch pretty casually in an actual battle, then proceed to nullify the subsequent universe-busting energy with a gesture(like he did to the SDEB way back in BoG.)

...Not even factoring in a Hakai here.

This. Monarch wouldn't last a second against Beerus. Let's not even mention Whis.

Originally posted by cdtm
Which logically means Annataz could weaken Mxy, yet was still terrified of Superboy Prime.

No real way of lowballing that. If Mxy and Annataz could have turned on SBP, they would have. No mainstream character would be able to keep those two in check, at the same time.

And besides, the "weakening" only really seemed to keep Mxy from fleeing.

Yeah, I kind of want to see some proof that Mxy was depowered to the point of being pretty much powerless. When you”re talking about a character who has the power to snap away infinite universes, even 1% of that power would put SBP/Monarch way beyond baseline universal.

YouTube video

Hey stilt

Monarch is beneath the likes of Shroud and Nightwatch.

Funny enough, the reason I asked if Monarch could solo DBS was due to that video. Don”t really buy everything Chuck says, but I do think Monarch has to be way above baseline universal.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, I kind of want to see some proof that Mxy was depowered to the point of being pretty much powerless. When you”re talking about a character who has the power to snap away infinite universes, even 1% of that power would put SBP/Monarch way beyond baseline universal.

The scene has never made sense to me for reasons I've thoroughly elaborated on in threads over the years, but it is what it is. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Captain Atom/Monarch's power has always been solidly universal -- various sources over the years state that his quantum energy was like that of a big bang and such. We then saw the sum total of his power released in the aftermath of his fight with Prime, and it wiped out -a- universe. No legitimate reason to put his power beyond universal, imo.

And yeah, Mxy *was* massively weakened there -- Annataz was keeping him depowered.

There's essentially 3 popular versions of Captain Atom:

a). Captain Atom [normal]
b). Captain Atom [Monarch - amped]
c). Captain Atom [in the quantum field]

The first is a really powerful superhero [more than people think]. The second is a Universal destroyer in power. The 3rd is essentially Omnipotent.

Beeerus is imo beating the first two.

Agreed... And personally, I think the level of power Beerus displayed in BoG(which was just an insignificant micro-fraction of his full strength) would be enough to handle Monarch. /shrug

This is why I don't like Beerus. That one fight alone. We do not have a cap on his power level yet. Everything we've seen of him isn't his maximum or anything close to it. He doesn't have a reason to be able to take on the entire group of GODS and doing well against them to the point of killing them. He shouldn't be able to one hand blue Vegeta. It's dumb. I can't wait until Goku punches his lights out.

Goku will surpass Beerus at *some* point, I'm sure... But I don't think he's there yet.

Beerus still seems entirely unimpressed by Goku's current level of power(which makes a little more sense now that we know he uses some kind of superduper GoD equivalent of MUI.)

The asinine power-creep that Beerus has received in DBS...without doing a goddamn thing, mind you...is hysterical.

Originally posted by Galan007
The spell Annataz used to depower Mxy was: "BREAK HIS WILL! NO MAGIC FOR IMP!" Mxy himself then stated that he was too "punch drunk" to summon his magics. So it's pretty clear that the spell was meant to depower him entirely(or at least make him not give a shit about trying to summon his magics in the first place.)

The scene has never made sense to me for reasons I've thoroughly elaborated on in threads over the years, but it is what it is. /shrug

Two things there.

1. Mxy still healed himself from a mortal blow, while under this spell.

2. He only said he was punch drunk after the beating from SBP, never said a word about spells making him punch drunk.

And like X said, even 1% of Mxy's power is universal plus, easily. When he fled, while free of A's magic and weakened from a beating, he was still very much a high cosmic being that could casually end universes.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Funny enough, the reason I asked if Monarch could solo DBS was due to that video. Don”t really buy everything Chuck says, but I do think Monarch has to be way above baseline universal.

Honestly I don't see Monarch beating Goku at all, However if Goku blast a hole in Monarch, Monarch will explode, and does Goku have durability to suggest he can survive universal destruction

Well, Goku did survive an all put blast from Beerus while he was in black hair form and Beerus is a Universe plus level being on his holding back days. He should be ok. I still think Goku withstood the most powerful attack in DBS, Jiren compressed blast that turned Goku into MUI.

World Forger destroys universes with each swipe of his hammer. Superman can knock this multiversal entity down, he would atomize Beerus or Zeno with a punch.

Originally posted by cdtm
Two things there.

1. Mxy still healed himself from a mortal blow, while under this spell.

2. He only said he was punch drunk after the beating from SBP, never said a word about spells making him punch drunk.

And like X said, even 1% of Mxy's power is universal plus, easily. When he fled, while free of A's magic and weakened from a beating, he was still very much a high cosmic being that could casually end universes.

Yeah. Even after Mxy gets his magic back and feels better, he still tells Annataz to, "Come with me before he decides we're worth killing after all!" which indicates Mxy still thought SBP would kill them if they didn't escape. He even proceeds to say "If I was up to it, I'd go back there and turn psycho super-yutz inside out...but sometimes even the trickster God comes out a loser...and the only trick he has left is a fast exit."

Meaning that Mxy even after getting his magic back was not up to the task of defeating SBP. As CD said, Mxy casually healed himself from a mortal blow WITHOUT his full magical power, which indicates either:

A: FP Mxy simply can't defeat SBP.

B: Prime weakened Mxy to such an extent that even with his magic returned, he couldn't heal himself from the beating SBP gave him, meaning Prime is capable of hurting FP Mxy.

Either one would necessitate Prime (and thus Monarch) to be waaaay above baseline universal.

You could just as easily chalk that up to Prime's natural anti-magic haxx(back then, no one's magic really affected him), coupled with the stacked Guardian amp, which logically bolstered said resistance even moreso.

No reason at all to assume that puts Monarch above universal by default, imo... Especially when Monarch himself stated that his power was akin to a big bang, and the sum total of his power being released 'only' destroyed a single universe.

Worlogog versus DB?