Lmao guess you missed the last scan, where he specifically says things aren't what they seem.
Strange, that.
My question still stands, though, for the third time - what power level is the referee? The challenge SPECIFICALLY said Goku was as of the time he fought Piccolo Jr....so he started that fight without FTL blitzing (lol).
The thing that wasn't as it appears was him winning the battle outright due Fantomex ship. Next scan...
He's basically saying while it appears he is at a disadvantage, he's not because he have help.
Also, the ref isn't faster than Goku or as fast since most of his fight against Piccolo, the ref couldn't see what was going on. I also posted scans on the previous page where an entire tourny was done in less than a second and the ref couldn't see it and this was done by characters FAR slower than Goku. So, what's your point mentioning him?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nobody talked about the Skrull ship.If you're completely clueless about the subject and just trolling, then I'm siccing Pr on you.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So point out where in MY scans it was activated.You see, you're arguing that it's always needs Fantomex to activate it. All I need to do is throw doubt in that.
So I've shown multiple times he hasn't just thrown it up. It was just.....there.
So I win by default. Your challenge was for those who could. And I've shown someone who could, a meta tier character.
Originally posted by cdtm
As you ignored the fact Fantomex's power is untested against third senses.For example, Matt Murdoch's radar sense. Which Goku duplicated in his second fight with Tien, with his back fully turned to him telling him how many fingers he had up.
Not ki sense. This was a trick strctly done with the existing senses.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It worked against Jamie Braddock.It has also worked against Ship, Apocalypse's sentient Celestial ship. Which has no eyes/ears - something that was pointed out to cdtm years ago
Right there.
Apocolypse's Skrull ship. The Celestial one. Skrull Celestial whatever, you knew whar I meanr.
But let's use Carver's debating style (note, I am NOT seriously suggesting anyone with an ounce of logic do so). Fantomex is a niche character, so let's use a better, more famous example, one we all know is supposedly 'always active' - the Spider Sense. Stilt will love this post.
If I grab out-of-context and just general bad scans, then I can argue that Spider-Man needs to activate it first - so in a fight, anyone can simply blitz him before he thinks to activate it. I am not talking about being so fast that his SS doesn't warn him in time - I am now arguing (using Carver logic) that Spider-Man has to enter a fight and CONSCIOUSLY think 'Go go Spider-Sense!!!'.
That Spider-Sense sure would've been handy here, right?
https://i.postimg.cc/2y7jc8wr/OKSZiGy.png
What about here?
Here?
https://i.postimg.cc/0js20J7V/RCO013-1469460615.jpg
Here?
https://i.postimg.cc/XJFY5gBZ/RCO017-1471301103.jpg
Here?
What about here? Faustus, btw, is a normal human (lol). An active Spider-Sense sure would be helpful:
From Wikipedia (lol):
Doctor Faustus has no superhuman powers but has a genius intellect, and is extremely charismatic and can modulate his voice in a highly persuasive manner. He has a doctorate in psychiatry.
So, in summary: Spider-Man's Spidey Sense is not always active, and he needs to activate it first in battle. If you gave MJ a gun, she would slaughter Spider-Man - and for the purposes of a forum battle, since Batman isn't his sworn enemy (lol), Batman would casually kill Spidey. If Spidey is tired, or hurt, then his Spidey Sense stops working, which is proof it needs to be activated (just like Fantomex being hurt and mot using illusions is proof it needs to be activated, apparently).
Originally posted by carver9
The thing that wasn't as it appears was him winning the battle outright due Fantomex ship. Next scan...He's basically saying while it appears he is at a disadvantage, he's not because he have help.
Also, the ref isn't faster than Goku or as fast since most of his fight against Piccolo, the ref couldn't see what was going on. I also posted scans on the previous page where an entire tourny was done in less than a second and the ref couldn't see it and this was done by characters FAR slower than Goku. So, what's your point mentioning him?
The point was, when Goku started the Piccolo Jr fight, he wasn't faster than the eye could see (lol). The referee and the entire crowd could see them.
You SPECIFICALLY used the Goku who was in the Piccolo fight. So as per CIS (or in-character, or whatever you want to use), Goku doesn't start this fight at FTE speeds. I don't care about other tourneys or whatever, I am using the version YOU specified.
Originally posted by carver9
Yep. The one who fought Jr during the tourney.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85The difference is that we do know, with certainty, that Spidey's 'tingle' is(or at least should be) always active... So the times where it didn't kick in can be attributed to varying degrees of PIS or whathaveyou.
But let's use Carver's debating style (note, I am NOT seriously suggesting anyone with an ounce of logic do so). Fantomex is a niche character, so let's use a better, more famous example, one we all know is supposedly 'always active' - the Spider Sense. Stilt will love this post.If I grab out-of-context and just general bad scans, then I can argue that Spider-Man needs to activate it first - so in a fight, anyone can simply blitz him before he thinks to activate it. I am [b]not
talking about being so fast that his SS doesn't warn him in time - I am now arguing (using Carver logic) that Spider-Man has to enter a fight and CONSCIOUSLY think 'Go go Spider-Sense!!!'.[/B]
Where Fantomex's powers are concerned, however, we don't know one way or the other -- maybe they are always on; maybe they aren't... So I guess it might just come down to consistency(ie. how many time's he's been depicted consciously activating it during a fight vs. how many times it has just been there)..? Dunno.
Who said Spiderman Spider sense isn't always active in those scans? Spiderman is just careless and have admitted he is careless, even when his spider sense warns him. What I'm posting vs you posting scans of Spiderman is completely different. We CLEARLY see Fantomex lifting his hands up, pointing in the direction of his targets and using misdirect. He would NOT have to do that if it was always active. We see him combating someone for extended periods of time AND LOSING with that person not experiencing anything involving misdirect. So yes, Spiderman Spider sense is always active but Fantomex powers isn't. I might get off of this topic because it's going nowhere. Fantomex dies with ease. Next!!!
Originally posted by Galan007
The difference is that we do know, with certainty, that Spidey's 'tingle' is(or at least should be) always active... So the times where it didn't kick in can be attributed to varying degrees of PIS or whathaveyou.Where Fantomex's powers are concerned, however, we don't know one way or the other -- maybe they are always on; maybe they aren't... So I guess it might just come down to consistency(ie. how many time's he's been depicted consciously activating it during a fight vs. how many times it has just been there)..? Dunno.
👆 I think my problem is that when Carver appears, I go into the extremes.
As I said before (and you correctly picked up on), it is up in the air with writers. Hell, we don't even know if it is a mutant ability or not - some comics say yes, some say its not.
I am just pushing back at the concrete, cast-iron 'It needs to be activated, based on these cherry-picked scans' line that Carver is using. Of course, if we used that line of arguing, then something as basic as the Spider-Sense gets nuked into oblivion for forum fights (which is wrong, as I said).
For example, even when Fantomex was nowhere near War (or the ghoul, as Carver charmingly said lol), he was still misdirected:
So much for Carver's 'proof' that fading = need for activation.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The point was, when Goku started the [b]Piccolo Jr fight, he wasn't faster than the eye could see (lol). The referee and the entire crowd could see them.You SPECIFICALLY used the Goku who was in the Piccolo fight. So as per CIS (or in-character, or whatever you want to use), Goku doesn't start this fight at FTE speeds. I don't care about other tourneys or whatever, I am using the version YOU specified. [/B]
He doesn't need to be faster than light or anywhere close to it to blitz Fantomex and its in Goku character to use speed and like I said in my title, he is trying to take his opponent out which means, yes, he is going for the blitz and the ko or kill during the onset. Add on the fact that each contestant gets basic knowledge of each other's abilities, I just don't see how you think Fantomex stands a chance.
Originally posted by carver9
Who said Spiderman Spider sense isn't always active in those scans? Spiderman is just careless and have admitted he is careless, even when his spider sense warns him. What I'm posting vs you posting scans of Spiderman is completely different. We CLEARLY see Fantomex lifting his hands up, pointing in the direction of his targets and using misdirect. He would NOT have to do that if it was always active. We see him combating someone for extended periods of time AND LOSING with that person not experiencing anything involving misdirect. So yes, Spiderman Spider sense is always active but Fantomex powers isn't. I might get off of this topic because it's going nowhere. Fantomex dies with ease. Next!!!
Considering Goku does not start his Piccolo fight at FTE speeds, let alone FTL speeds, your entire point was moot from the start, lmao.
Originally posted by carver9
He doesn't need to be faster than light or anywhere close to it to blitz Fantomex and its in Goku character to use speed and like I said in my title, he is trying to take his opponent out which means, yes, he is going for the blitz and the ko or kill during the onset. Add on the fact that each contestant gets basic knowledge of each other's abilities, I just don't see how you think Fantomex stands a chance.
Point out where in the fight with Piccolo (YOUR stips, lmao) he STARTED with speeds beyond what Fantomex can perceive? The entire crowd was watching them, after all. Was he not trying to take Piccolo out? PRoof?
Or did he not know what Piccolo was capable of? Hmm.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆Nice.
So where is it activated here? Let me know which panel has the misdirection starting (just so you know, Logan and Fantomex weren't actually in the fight at all - and before you ask, no, that panel where his hand is up and he's being choked by the ribbons isn't the misdirection starting, as it's shown he was never in the ribbons to start with):
https://i.postimg.cc/k5zJ0r78/1-Inerplanetary-Long-Range-Misdirection-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/yNtRvr5p/2-Inerplanetary-Long-Range-Misdirection-2.jpgThat was over interplanetary distances, and it fades because of distance (more on that later).
When is it activated here?
https://i.postimg.cc/5trsMgHD/1-Misdirection-Jean-Charles-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/rpbzC0bS/2-Misdirection-Jean-Charles-2.jpgThe entire sequence with Jean and Xavier was an illusion, btw - the old lady, the house, everything:
https://i.postimg.cc/8CY6CnmB/4-Misdirection-Jean-Charles-4.jpgWhen is it activated here?
https://i.postimg.cc/P5nJNqTy/RCO011-1468906482.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SKHhRW2z/Uncanny-X-Force-017-011.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/cJ2Dwhc0/Uncanny-X-Force-017-016.jpgHow about here, when he has both his hands full with his guns - when does the illusion start?
https://i.postimg.cc/FKwXn9D5/WFgZJBy.jpgThis is what I was telling Galan - writers are deliberately vague with his powerset. Yes, sometimes he lifts his hands - and sometimes he doesn't. It just is.
It fades with distance. I mean, to use an example for you, Hulk is ALWAYS radioactive - but put enough distance between you and him, and that radioactivity will fade. Doesn't mean the Hulk is turning his radiation on and off.
Dark, you said here that it fades due to distance. Are you taking that statement back?
Originally posted by carver9
Dark, you said here that it fades due to distance. Are you taking that statement back?
Sure, I can take it back, as I can see War was misdirected even when Fantomex was nowhere near.
Or maybe I'm wrong there... and it's actually because Fantomex's ability is always on (lol), hence why War's misdirected even though Fantomex isn't standing there with his hands up (lol).
Or maybe, it is as I have said - the nature of his powers is undefined.
Maybe you can explain?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Yeah, I agree.
👆 I think my problem is that when Carver appears, I go into the extremes.As I said before (and you correctly picked up on), it is up in the air with writers. Hell, we don't even know if it is a mutant ability or not - some comics say yes, some say its not.
I am just pushing back at the concrete, cast-iron 'It needs to be activated, based on these cherry-picked scans' line that Carver is using. Of course, if we used that line of arguing, then something as basic as the Spider-Sense gets nuked into oblivion for forum fights (which is wrong, as I said).
For example, even when Fantomex was nowhere near War (or the ghoul, as Carver charmingly said lol), he was still misdirected:
So much for Carver's 'proof' that fading = need for activation.
There are loads of examples where Fantomex's powers have just... Been(#YourScans), and there are other examples of him consciously activating it during a fight(#CarvActuallyDidSomeHomework). Because of these 'discrepancies', it's annoyingly difficult to try and pinpoint how Fantomex would start-off in a forum fight.
That said, if we're assuming that Goku will be immediately out for the kill in this fight(which is something that is very OOC for him), then maybe it's fair to assume Fantomex would also be at his 'peak' here... In which case his abilities would already be active.
Dunno. /shrug
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sure, I can take it back, as I can see War was misdirected even when Fantomex was nowhere near.Or maybe I'm wrong there... and it's actually because Fantomex's ability is always on (lol), hence why War's misdirected even though Fantomex isn't standing there with his hands up (lol).
Or maybe, it is as I have said - the nature of his powers is undefined.
Maybe you can explain?
Didn't that scene take place AFTER his confrontation with Fantomex? Remember, when they were face to face, Fantomex still had to raise his hand to misdirect him.
Originally posted by Galan007That said, if we're assuming that Goku will be immediately out for the kill in this fight(which is something that is very OOC for him), then maybe it's fair to assume Fantomex would also be at his 'peak' here... In which case his abilities would already be active
Yes and no.
Goku's actually less prone to messing around then Vegeta is. Recoome and Burter found that out the hard way. And he just about took Krillin's head off in a spar.
Actually going for the kill is another story, but that's less of an issue then his inclination to go right for the win imo.
Originally posted by carver9
Didn't that scene take place AFTER his confrontation with Fantomex? Remember, when they were face to face, Fantomex still had to raise his hand to misdirect him.
Lol.
Remember, he had no face after:
The scene with Betsy is a few issues afterwards. Fantomex is nowhere near them, not in line of sight, not lifting his hands. It just....was.
Which has been my point all along.
Originally posted by cdtmVegeta simply wasn't strong enough to beat/kill the stronger members of the Ginyu Force at the time, or he definitely would have... As we saw shortly after:
Yes and no.Goku's actually less prone to messing around then Vegeta is. Recoome and Burter found that out the hard way. And he just about took Krillin's head off in a spar.
Actually going for the kill is another story, but that's less of an issue then his inclination to go right for the win imo.
"In character" for Goku is more along the lines of: "Hey, you seem pretty strong, and that's super exciting for me!! Now let me see what you can really do!!"
