In the manga he learned how to use Destruction, just by seeing it done once.
And his tactics are brilliant. Took no time at all to learn Tiens quad body weaknesses, not Piccolo's size growth weakness.
Or later in Z, he learns how to beat Yakkan by overfeeding him.
Unless Fantomex can actually use misdirect to paralyze Goku, he'd develop a defense against it. Somehow fight without even knowing where Fantomex is.
Originally posted by carver9
Atom wasn't in the blast and he shrunk before the blast hit him. Nice ft but he gets blitzed here. Also, how fast can he shrink from 6 ft to an Atom? Is it faster than Goku could get to him or get off an attack? You're talking about Atom shrinking from an explosion comparing it to a guy at his weakest level when he was a child who outraced lightning and sun light. One person is obviously far faster than the other and the distance is only 10 ft AND as stated above, both are trying to take the other out. What makes this even more deadly is basic knowledge.
It's thought based, so...speed of thought.
My point was he was fast enough to shrink before the energy attacks could hit him. Nice feats for Goku, but in the fight you are using, he didn't start at 'outracing lightning' speed or sunlight, lmao, despite trying to take Piccolo out, despite knowing who he was. So why is he suddenly doing that here?
What do you understand by basic knowledge? You said this with Fantomex like it was some aha moment.....
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Because otherwise there would be no discussion at all.Sure. If anything, he only gets dumber with time.
Thanks.
The entire time, no, as we see Wolverine is missing a glove when he considers killing Apocalypse Junior --- so some of that fight definitely *did* happen.
Maybe the misdirection started after the carpet messed Fantomex up - we see his gesture and he can't walk, even though he was relatively fine before.
Or maybe he was just weak from the misdirection feat itself, as he mentions on panel. Hard to say.
I assumed the misdirect happened earlier than the ribbons, just because if the distances involved....EVA would have to be stupidly fast otherwise
I can see Goku beating misdirect like Orochi Doppo defeated a similar technique in the prison arc of Baki.
Essentially, it was a super hypnosis that made the target believe they were destroying their opponent, but in reality were attacking air and leaving themselves open. The reason this didn't work on Doppo is he sensed the fight was too easy. So he ended up disbelieving his senses and fought at the mental construct he previously formed of his opponent, which happened to coincide to their real movements, leading to them getting beat up without Doppo realizing it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's thought based, so...speed of thought.My point was he was fast enough to shrink before the energy attacks could hit him. Nice feats for Goku, but in the fight you are using, he didn't start at 'outracing lightning' speed or sunlight, lmao, despite trying to take Piccolo out, despite knowing who he was. So why is he suddenly doing that here?
What do you understand by basic knowledge? You said this with Fantomex like it was some aha moment.....
Are you not reading my posts? It literally states whomever you choose AND Goku is TRYING to take each other out which means Goku who tends to use his speed consistently, hell, probably even better than Flash himself (combat wise) WILL use his speed. Also, this version of Goku get his ft against Piccolo and his fts before this and he have numerous of showings starting battles off with a casual speed blitz.
Basic knowledge is, Goku will know Atom can shrink.
Originally posted by carver9
Are you not reading my posts? It literally states whomever you choose AND Goku is TRYING to take each other out which means Goku who tends to use his speed consistently, hell, probably even better than Flash himself (combat wise) WILL use his speed. Also, this version of Goku get his ft against Piccolo and his fts before this and he have numerous of showings starting battles off with a casual speed blitz.Basic knowledge is, Goku will know Atom can shrink.
So he wasn't TRYING to take Piccolo Jr out? I am literally using the version you specified. In that fight, he didn't start the fight moving at FTL speeds, as I said many times before.
And I was just wondering how that applied to Fantomex. Guess you realised you were wrong there, no need to get defensive.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So he wasn't TRYING to take Piccolo Jr out? I am literally using the version you specified. In that fight, he didn't start the fight moving at FTL speeds, as I said many times before.And I was just wondering how that applied to Fantomex. Guess you realised you were wrong there, no need to get defensive.
He wasn't trying to kill him, no.
Not because of a code, he DID kill his father, whom Piccolo Jr. is essentially a clone of, spit from an egg as he died.
But because if Piccolo dies, Kami dies, and so go the Dragon Balls. Goku knew this, despite Kami trying to keep it a secret so he wouldn't hesitate to end his other half (They used to be the same being, and remerged in the Cell saga)
Lol... no, he was not trying in the beginning to take Piccolo out. Goku is just like Superman, he tends to always hold back. When Piccolo started threatening to kill people, that's when he got serious. This version of Goku is trying to knock Atom and Fantomex TF out as soon as the bell ring. Also forgot to mention that Piccolo ate Kami, Goku friend before the battle started, so Goku couldn't go all out.
This happened and that bottle he is holding, Piccolo ate it...
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I agree.There are loads of examples where Fantomex's powers have just... Been(#YourScans), and there are other examples of him consciously activating it during a fight(#CarvActuallyDidSomeHomework). Because of these 'discrepancies', it's annoyingly difficult to try and pinpoint how Fantomex would start-off in a forum fight.
That said, if we're assuming that Goku will be immediately out for the kill in this fight(which is something that is very OOC for him), then maybe it's fair to assume Fantomex would also be at his 'peak' here... In which case his abilities would already be active.
Dunno. /shrug
Then this.
Of course, Carv, it's your challenge, so feel free to nerf sides as appropriate so you can have the answer you want lol.
Originally posted by carver9
Lol... no, he was not trying in the beginning to take Piccolo out. Goku is just like Superman, he tends to always hold back. When Piccolo started threatening to kill people, that's when he got serious. This version of Goku is trying to knock Atom and Fantomex TF out as soon as the bell ring. Also forgot to mention that Piccolo ate Kami, Goku friend before the battle started, so Goku couldn't go all out.
Pre Z Goku killed all the time.
He slaughtered Red Ribbon Army soldiers left and right, killed General Black by kicking a bomb back at him, killed Piccolo Sr. by charging right through his chest (And Kami didn't die from this presumably because Piccolo sent his soul off into an egg, which Piccolo Jr. hatched from. Though he's clearly not the same person his father is.)
Oh, and lets not forget Goku helped Piccolo murder Radditz.
The code against killing comes much later.
Originally posted by cdtm
Pre Z Goku killed all the time.He slaughtered Red Ribbon Army soldiers left and right, killed General Black by kicking a bomb back at him, killed Piccolo Sr. by charging right through his chest (And Kami didn't die from this presumably because Piccolo sent his soul off into an egg, which Piccolo Jr. hatched from. Though he's clearly not the same person his father is.)
Oh, and lets not forget Goku helped Piccolo murder Radditz.
The code against killing comes much later.
Don't remember him killing anyone in the Red Ribbon army.
He didn't have a choice but to kick the bomb.
Him killing Piccolo is like Superman killing Doomsday.
He didn't have a choice but to assist with killing Raditz. Either let Raditz kill him and sell Earth (and take his child) or sacrifice himself and Raditz.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The post I quoted is in general.If you're using Goku at his peak with OOC tactics (lol) then are you allowing opponents to be at their peak?
Bear in mind, I'm not the one talking about OOC Goku.
I'm using Goku going for the knock out. I'm not using Goku any other way. If you consider someone immediately as fighting at their peak, then I don't know what to tell you.
Originally posted by carver9
Don't remember him killing anyone in the Red Ribbon army.He didn't have a choice but to kick the bomb.
Him killing Piccolo is like Superman killing Doomsday.
He didn't have a choice but to assist with killing Raditz. Either let Raditz kill him and sell Earth (and take his child) or sacrifice himself and Raditz.
No parachutes, those pilots crashed and burned.
Originally posted by carver9
I'm using Goku going for the knock out. I'm not using Goku any other way. If you consider someone immediately as fighting at their peak, then I don't know what to tell you.
Meant to say "if you think someone immediately knocking someone else out as being at their peek, then I don't know what to tell you".
Originally posted by carver9
I'm using Goku going for the knock out. I'm not using Goku any other way. If you consider someone immediately as fighting at their peak, then I don't know what to tell you.
I said OOC. And even then, OOC wasn't said by me,but by someone (Galan) who is way WAY more familiar with Goku than me
But sure, if Goku has no defence against misdirection, or BFR, or the Atom, or Invisible Woman, and has to use faster than sunlight speed at the start to have a chance of winning against metas, then ok lmao. Even though he didn't go for the KO in the fight you're using. Not talking about killing (you're obsessed with this), but knocking out/winning his fight with Piccolo.
Next up, Aquarian lol.