!!!The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!

Started by cdtm298 pages

Originally posted by Galan007
This is not a "mod ruling", just my personal opinion based on the info presented.

But if we take the statements made about Aquarian's null-field at face value, then it negates all energy. Magic might be esoteric energy, but it's still energy... And as such, should fall under the umbrella of "all energy" that is negated by the field. That said, I'm sure there are still ways to conceivably beat Aquarian with magic -- like using a "low energy" spell that can choke him out or somesuch.

Not sure how any of that applies to Goku, though, as he was not a wizard afaik?

Goku's Power Pole is magic. Death Battle even had it hurt PC Superman because of the magic reason, and odds are any writer would do the same for an official crossover.

And as I proved, magic breaks physics. Speedball controls kinetic energy, yet Junzo Muto's Iron Fist KO's Speedball, specifically stated because of magic being outside kinetic control.

It further stands to reason that Aquarians Null Field's statement of all energy could not possibly cover magic, for the same reason Speedball could not affect magic. Magic doesn't operate by known rules, and Wundarr the Aqarian has no knowledge of how magic energy operates when he makes his statement (This extends to the Cosmic Cube he absorbed the knowledge from, as Cosmic Cubes are not The Vishantii or Agamotto)

And I realize Doctor Manhattan claimed magic was merely another form of energy... But that's Doctor Manhattan. Aquarian is not Doctor Manhattan.

You can't read?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
You can't read?

Can't you?

I was responding to every one of Galan's points. So fail to see your point?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Basically this. He's not some super haxx character, he's just s bad matchup for Goku. Go in all guns blazing, and he'll negate you. Go in with low energy stuff, and he'll die.

Hence my use of the Nth Man scans. That guy was multiversal in nature when Aquarian negated the 616 aspect of him (so universal?).

Multiversal is a meaningless term.

If a "multiversal" cosmic energy source hit Juggernaut, it won't necessarily hurt him any more then Thor would.

Yet, a simple enchantment on an axe can kill Celestials.

Originally posted by cdtm
Can't you?

I was responding to every one of Galan's points. So fail to see your point?


Originally posted by Galan007
This is not a "mod ruling", just my personal opinion based on the info presented.

But if we take the statements made about Aquarian's null-field at face value , then it negates all energy. Magic might be esoteric energy, but it's still energy... And as such, should fall under the umbrella of "all energy" that is negated by the field. That said, I'm sure there are still ways to conceivably beat Aquarian with magic -- like using a "low energy" spell that can choke him out or somesuch.

Not sure how any of that applies to Goku, though, as he was not a wizard afaik?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

And?

Originally posted by cdtm
And?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/at%20face%20value
as true or genuine without being questioned or doubted

Unless you want to argue magical energy isnt energy?Which contradicts your previous post

Originally posted by cdtm
and Wundarr the Aqarian has no knowledge of how magic energy operates

😂

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/at%20face%20value

Unless you want to argue magical energy isnt energy?Which contradicts your previous post

So you're going to ignore my points and make a generalized statement that ignores context.

Hello Carver.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
😂

I'm probably wasting my time with you at this point, because all you really do is troll Carver and "low hanging fruit", and revert to bad faith arguments, or outright ignoring of counter arguments, but:

I guess this proves any old sneezing powder would work, amiright?

Well. The forum is dead as is, so may as well respond (as its such low-hanging fruit, lol).

Cdtm, please actually read my scans and posts. The reason why you were on ignore, is because you were just wasting time and throwing as much mud as you could, hoping it sticks. A lot of what you brought up has already been addressed, or at least, wouldn't need to be brought up as it has been pre-empted.

But let us go through your 'points'.

Originally posted by cdtm
Goku's Power Pole is magic. Death Battle even had it hurt PC Superman because of the magic reason, and odds are any writer would do the same for an official crossover.

OK. A bit of a meaningless post, as no-one disputed otherwise. Death Battle and what they assume, however, is equally meaningless. Grow a spine and brain, make your own judgements.


And as I proved, magic breaks physics. Speedball controls kinetic energy, yet Junzo Muto's Iron Fist KO's Speedball, specifically stated because of magic being outside kinetic control.

Again, what Speedball can or cannot do with Junzo isn't applicable to what Aquarian can or cannot do with Goku. Aquarian, moreover, does not just negate kinetic energy - he negates ALL energy. Something that Speedball doesn't.


It further stands to reason that Aquarians Null Field's statement of all energy could not possibly cover magic, for the same reason Speedball could not affect magic. Magic doesn't operate by known rules, and Wundarr the Aqarian has no knowledge of how magic energy operates when he makes his statement (This extends to the Cosmic Cube he absorbed the knowledge from, as Cosmic Cubes are not The Vishantii or Agamotto)

Let's tackle these 'point' in reverse order. Firstly, I posted scans where it WASN'T Aquarian making the statements - one of the statements was from the letters section of a comic, and one statement was from the narration within the comic. Yes, one statement was then from Aquarian himself - but that all adds on top of each other. We have character statements saying ALL energy, narration statements saying ALL energy, and essentially writer interviews saying ALL energy.

Really, it cannot be clearer than that.

Secondly, Aquarian does not need to 'know' the energy to negate it. As my scan showed, he negates energy even when in a coma, lol. He doesn't control what it negates, it just...does.

Thirdly, and perhaps most damaging to your 'point', is that I already clearly showed that whilst magic IS exotic, it is just energy. Moreover:


And I realize Doctor Manhattan claimed magic was merely another form of energy... But that's Doctor Manhattan. Aquarian is not Doctor Manhattan.

Vulcan, an energy manipulator, also said this, as my earlier scan showed. Now I also show Hank Pym saying the same thing. Trying to equate it to Dr M is disingenuous on your part.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm probably wasting my time with you at this point, because all you really do is troll Carver and "low hanging fruit", and revert to bad faith arguments, or outright ignoring of counter arguments, but:

I guess this proves any old sneezing powder would work, amiright?

Such a trolly post. If you made any counter arguments (or indeed, any arguments) worth responding to, I would have.

But as to your scan, and point about magic dust....

And?

I never once said the effects of different energies were the same. I fully, 10,000% agree, that magic has different effects. You are getting incredibly confused with this nonpoint.

Sound energy has different effects to heat energy, to kinetic energy etc. If I am cold, I turn my heater on - I don't punch myself in the face. If I want to listen to my fav music and watch my fav shows, I don't jam my fingers into a plug socket....

Electrical energy has different effects to sound, to heat, to light etc. Magic has different effects. Fully agree, never argued this point you're trying to refute, lol. Magical dust indeed has different effects to normal dust.

My ACTUAL point, is this:

Go back to my post about purple light, lol. It is certainly different from red light, or yellow light. They have different effects. Can Spectrum control it, if we only have scans of her controlling yellow light? We all agree purple light is different to yellow, but no-one argued they were the same. HOWEVER, we all agree it's 'light'.

Magic ENERGY is indeed different to heat ENERGY. But it is ENERGY. Vulcan could manipulate it. Pym explicitly destroys your point. Vision, as far from magic as one could get, can detect it:

So...yeah. Magic energy is energy. Aquarian negates all energy, as said by narration, character statements and interviews.

To refute it, actually bring something to the table. Help Carv out. Using Speedball's failure isn't it, as Speedball isn't Aquarian (I do like how hypocritical you are, though, in saying Aquarian isn't Dr M - then turn around and try to equate Aquarian to Speedball, lol).

Back to the challenge at hand, Goku uses the Power Pole, and the energy from it is negated. Whether it be kinetic, or magic. Goku himself, as he is holding it, would also then have his own energy negated (assuming he doesn't get trapped in the expanding field in the first place).

He is thus unable to harm Aquarian.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hence my use of the Nth Man scans. That guy was multiversal in nature when Aquarian negated the 616 aspect of him (so universal?).

Some would argue that Goku scales far above universal though, even in Base.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Some would argue that Goku scales far above universal though, even in Base.
I might even argue that... perhaps not in base, but possibly presently.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Some would argue that Goku scales far above universal though, even in Base.
They're discussing Goku as of the 23rd WMAT.

Alright, so I've read all of the comics that he's been introduced in except Fantastic Four vol. 6 #5 (Feb. 2019) because I couldn't find it, but, in earlier times, his powers did make it KIND of hard to beat Aquarian but later comics, he sucks. Even in his earlier days, there were people that was capable of hugging him, shaking his hand, etc... without falling out or getting weak. Later comics, he got choked to sleep once and got almost choked to sleep again until he was saved by Quasar. Heck, there were an entire tribe of people standing around him just fine with no fatigue or anything. Even with CIS off, he is a pacifist. CIS doesn't apply to him at all because he sucks. Goku kills him, with ease. Please let me know if I need to post scans.

Originally posted by carver9
Alright, so I've read all of the comics

😂

As always, eh, carv?

Originally posted by carver9
Even with CIS off
Originally posted by carver9
he is a pacifist

Yep

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

Because that isn't character induced stupidity. It's just being in character.

The same way Superman with CIS off does not kill.

Carver got this 100% right.

Originally posted by carver9

Who's the weakest person that can beat this version of Goku in a 1 on 1 match? The starting distance is 10 ft, both are trying to take each other out and anime fts are allowed. CDTM, you're not invited to respond to this message.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with this. In this situation though (not saying you're saying anything different than what I am about to say, Galan), Goku is trying to take whomever out, quickly.

Seems like you need a refresher on your own challenge, Carv. You never specified CIS off....you specified that both sides were trying to take each other out. Very different things lmao.

I see that cdtm is ignoring my counter arguments 😂 just a time waster. And here I was (in good faith!!) taking him off ignore.