Originally posted by Parmaniac
He did? What kind? Ape again?
👆
Spoiler:
https://www.cbr.com/dragon-ball-gt-super-saiyan-4-officially-canon/
This was a really good episode. Might help save Daima for a lot of people, tbh.
There were leaks some months ago that said Goku would unlock SS4, but that sounded like too much of a Xenoversey asspull to me, so I immediately wrote the leaks off as BS... So I'm surprised they were actually legit, to say the least. Anyway, the form itself looks great(and depending on what Glorio's wish turns out to be, we might see adult SS4 next episode), but GT did the 'reveal' way better, imo. Regardless, I really hope this is a one-time form that can only be accessed in the Demon Realm or somesuch, because aside from that(or a mind-wipe), I don't know how Daima could possibly mesh with DBS if SS4 has been permanently accessible to Goku since the Boo-era. /shrug
At this point my biggest question is Neva... How f*cking powerful is this guy?? 😑
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX👆 if SS4 remains a thing, then yeah, it must be < SSG, as Goku had no other natural means of powering-up enough to fight Beerus during BoG -- the Saiyan ritual(to unlock SSG) was his only option. So even IF Goku was still capable of using SS4 during DBS/BoG, he clearly didn't think it would be helpful to at least try it out against Beerus(which automatically scales it below SSG.)
if ssj4 does stay canon to dbs, then it just means it is canonically weaker than ssg. so really no different than vegeta pulling ssj3 out of his ass in this.
I mean, at least Vegeta's lack of SS3 during DBS *could* be explained-away via a short blurb during a training scene with Goku. Something like: "Super Saiyan 3 is an absolute waste, Kakarot!! It depletes you in minutes!! Why do you think I decided never to use it again after we left the Demon Realm!? It is beneath a true Elite like myself!!" Plot-hole [albeit sloppily] fixed.
However, Goku still having access to SS4 in DBS presents a much bigger problem. There are multiple instances in both the anime and manga where Goku has intentionally shown-off ALL of his transformations sequentially(from base to blue), and SS4 has obviously never even been alluded to. Up to this point it has always been: SS3 = the highest transformation/power that Goku can achieve without accessing divine ki(ie. SSG and above.) So the existence of SS4 would indeed throw a HUGE wrench in the gears if it stays accessible to Goku after the series has concluded. That's why I hope it's just a "Daima-Exclusive".
Just saw this...
Originally posted by carver9I agree that Mark would be hard-pressed to defeat Nappa.
Mark is solid mid Herald. I agree with Galan here. I think Nappa would be a hard time for him, though but I would give Mark the edge.
As we know, Nappa can raze continent-sized areas with almost no effort:
https://ibb.co/QjPzBFvw
https://ibb.co/8Lgn1Z8S
https://ibb.co/zWZG8Rp6
...Mark isn't tanking that.
And that is obviously FAR from Nappa's most powerful attack, which is the mouth-cannon:
https://ibb.co/V0ScyygT
https://ibb.co/35nC29JT
https://ibb.co/JjfC32Lm
*Scaling puts that blast well above moon-busting potency. IOW, Nappa could destroy a very large percentage of the earth entirely.
...Mark definitely isn't tanking that.
Honestly a fight with Nappa could go either way, imo.
Originally posted by Galan007I agree that Invincible would stop at the Saiyan arc, but it's going to take one of the more powerful characters in that arc like Vegeta or Goku to beat him. It's not going to be Krillin or any of the humans lol. Give Mark some respect! 😛
He gets as far as a Destructo Disc from Saiyan saga Krillin... And I'm not entirely joking. 👆But "frfr", Mark would likely have a very hard time with a few Saiyan saga characters. Aside, perhaps, from his final fight with Thragg(on the surface of the sun), Mark just doesn't have the feats to suggest that he could shrug off a planet-buster from Goku or Vegeta, imo.
IF Mark clears the Saiyan saga, hard stop at the [early] Freeza saga.
Originally posted by LordGodOh I love Mark, but... Are you sure? 😖hifty:
It's not going to be Krillin or any of the humans lol. Give Mark some respect! 😛
In terms of raw power: Saiyan saga Krillin was able to kill three Saibamen with a single attack:
https://ibb.co/DDyBRfZF
https://ibb.co/hJF6dPQX
https://ibb.co/3yvF1Qb2
*Each Saibamen was equal to Raditz, who can no-sell a moon-buster(as detailed here.)
ie. If one were so inclined, one could argue that Krillin's blast contained moon-busting(++) potency, given that it one-pieced three separate characters who each could've tanked a moon-buster... Which would certainly give Mark problems, to say the absolute least. vin
As for the Destructo Disc specifically: It was abundantly clear that it would have bisected Nappa had it connected:
https://ibb.co/7dx1KZfp
https://ibb.co/rG4nFFXJ
https://ibb.co/6J7mvZbr
*And we've established/agreed that Nappa-level characters(PL=4,000) would already give Mark a very good fight(possibly even beat him.)
Hell, Krillin's DD was so haxx(even back then) that Oozaru Vegeta(PL=180,000) also felt the need to dodge it:
https://ibb.co/S47zb6kN
https://ibb.co/xtN0X8Vq
https://ibb.co/1GGGBZGW
*If Vegeta believed that he could have just tanked the Disc, he wouldn't have bothered dodging it.
So yes, a DD from Saiyan saga Krillin would absolutely cleave Mark the f*ck in half if it connected, tbh. 🙂
The only problem I see with Krillin vs Mark and Nappa vs Mark is speed. Can either of these two keep up with Mark? Mark is pretty freaking fast. Then, even though it was a one time showing, Mark was at his prime when he fought in the sun. Idk if Nappa or Krillin could muster up enough power to single shot kill him. I think Vegeta could, though but again, would Mark speed be an issue?
Given power-scaling, Krillin and Nappa should be fast enough to at least perceive/react to Mark in a combat scenario, I'd think... But yeah, if anything gave Mark the edge against them, it'd be his speed. That said, Mark would be hard-pressed to endure the blast Krillin used to kill the 3 Saibamen, imo... And Nappa can obviously produce FAR more powerful attacks than that... But the Destructo Disc in particular would straight up kill Mark if it connected.
So even if guys like Saiyan saga Krillin, Tien, and Piccolo ultimately lost to Mark, they each still have the potential to one-shot him -- Krillin with his DD, Tien with his Tri-Beam, and Piccolo with his SBC.
Nappa would give Mark the fight of his life overall, and certainly has the potential to beat him.
Saiyan saga Vegeta and Goku should be able to beat Mark overall, but even IF they can't quite match his physicals in a combat setting, they can each still pull a planet-buster out of their back pockets ftw. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007On the topic of Neva, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Demon Realm Dragon yet...
At this point my biggest question is Neva... How f*cking powerful is this guy?? 😑
*I dig his design, btw. It's basically if Ultimate Shenron(GT) did the fusion dance with Namekian Porunga. 👆
Anyway, aside from its obvious ability to grant high-end wishes, Makai-Porunga also has immense raw/physical power as well. He [literally] finger-flicked Third-Eye Gomah away with no effort whatsoever(heavily implying that Makai-Porunga's raw power is far beyond that of both SS3 and SS4, which is bonkers.)
And given that an Eternal Dragon's power is usually a direct reflection of its creator's power, this further implies pretty...umm...crazy things about Neva.
Originally posted by Galan007
Given power-scaling, Krillin and Nappa should be fast enough to at least perceive/react to Mark in a combat scenario, I'd think... But yeah, if anything gave Mark the edge against them, it'd be his speed. That said, Mark would be hard-pressed to endure the blast Krillin used to kill the 3 Saibamen, imo... And Nappa can obviously produce FAR more powerful attacks than that... But the Destructo Disc in particular would straight up kill Mark if it connected.So even if guys like Saiyan saga Krillin, Tien, and Piccolo ultimately lost to Mark, they each still have the potential to one-shot him -- Krillin with his DD, Tien with his Tri-Beam, and Piccolo with his SBC.
Nappa would give Mark the fight of his life overall, and certainly has the potential to beat him.
Saiyan saga Vegeta and Goku should be able to beat Mark overall, but even IF they can't quite match his physicals in a combat setting, they can each still pull a planet-buster out of their back pockets ftw. /shrug
I agree with this.
Originally posted by Galan007
*I dig his design, btw. It's basically if Ultimate Shenron(GT) did the fusion dance with Namekian Porunga. 👆
You dig everything red, crimson, scarlet or pink, even when it's made in MS Paint, Galan 😛
I am disappointed big time with Daima's SSJ4 and Super's SSJG designs.
But I agree about the Dragon - looks great 👆
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXMost definitely. 👆
casually flicking gomah like that would take at least god level power. that's actually an insane showing for the dragon.
Imo, Third-Eye Gomah already has borderline god-tier power, as he is more powerful than SS3 and SS4(DBS Goku would've likely had to activate at least SSG to beat him) -- yet Makai Porunga effortlessly stopped his attack with one finger, then just flicked him away like a powerless feeb. Crazy.
But we'll see what happens when the Z Fighters are transformed back into adults(I'm assuming that was at least part of Glorio's wish)... Because IF their adult forms are actually confirmed to be more powerful than their chibi versions(we haven't received explicit/unambiguous verification one way or the other yet), then it will completely alter how we view Daima's power-structure relative to DBZ/DBS.
Originally posted by carver9The Majin bros have kinda grown on me, tbh.
The Buus are just pointless. I don't get why they even exist.
Originally posted by carver9Yeah, that's what I mean. 👆 If you think about all the abilities/knowledge that Neva has randomly asspulled up to this point, he just comes off as stupidly OP and broken(almost like an Angel in that respect.) I have absolutely no idea what direction they'll go with him, though.
Also, this old Namek is the most powerful Namekian I've seen. He is the one that created these dragonballs and he's the one that is unlocking power with ease (remember, it took old Kai 24 hours to do something similar with Gohan).
Would be hilarious if Neva turns out to be Rymus, and the entirety of Daima has all been part of some cosmic game he engineered for the lulz.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW😂 I've always had a soft spot for MS Paint and Genie Jafar... So this Dragon is right up my alley. 😛
You dig everything red, crimson, scarlet or pink, even when it's made in MS Paint, Galan 😛I am disappointed big time with Daima's SSJ4 and Super's SSJG designs.
But I agree about the Dragon - looks great 👆
I didn't mind the SS4 design, but it definitely suffered from the chibi-style animation. I'm hoping we get to see a proper SS4 after they are transformed back into adults, though. I imagine that'll look much better.
