!!!The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!

Originally posted by cdtm
Fairly certain there IS a correlation in real life though.

If there weren't, there would be no need for weight classes in boxing. Rick Moranis and Bob Sapp will always have a disparity in punching power, no matter how polished Moranis's technique is over Sapp's.

If a human being existed who could lift ten tons, do you really think technique would matter? At all?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
if the feats and logic don't suit him, of course he'll ignore it.

his text walls are basically giant manifestos detailing why he hates db lol.

Pretty much 👍

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Why do you keep bringing up the weight of the "robot" when it hits Vegeta? That'd be like bringing up the weight of Superman and laughing that he's 200 pounds lmao!

Magetta was over 1000 tons but he was very quick and strong too. He wasn't just a static weight that was powered by perpetual falling due to gravitational forces. He was also a fighter that weighed a bunch.

Almost everything you used was also filler or straight up non canon as well. I keep seeing DBZ Broly being used as an example for some reason, and even in the movie you're quoting he slammed through the sun powered by a massive energy beam that they did have time to charge up. If you're using filler/non canon then it opens up the door to simply use Janemba or Buuhan tearing down the walls of the universe by screaming. Vegito literally punches through his shield and stops him.

As for the striking not matching up to blasts and this being evidence of their striking resistance being low... why? What exactly gives them better blast resistance than punch resistance? They still punch away planet destroying attacks.

How would 100 percent Frieza do against the ball that destroyed Planet Vegeta if he was given a second or two of prep time before it hit?

Look at you always slinking around looking for ways to undermine the opposition and give DC characters a chance. Haha wow this Dragin Ballz sounds week if wat im heering is tru!

But no, there's almost no correlation to lifting strength and punching strength in real life. That's where it comes from initially.

Not to mention that lava thing was just writer inconsistency. Their heat resistance has been above nuke level ever since the King Piccolo arc and in the DBZ anime, both Base Goku and SSJ Goku actually withstood being in lava. Base Goku even blew it away and SSJ Goku just flew out of it.

If movies wanna be talked about, Bojack and his gang were previously sealed inside the core of a star until North Kaiō died, and they were perfectly fine.

Originally posted by cdtm
Fairly certain there IS a correlation in real life though.

If there weren't, there would be no need for weight classes in boxing. Rick Moranis and Bob Sapp will always have a disparity in punching power, no matter how polished Moranis's technique is over Sapp's.

If a human being existed who could lift ten tons, do you really think technique would matter? At all?

Or a trained boxer/MMA fighter...vs a gorilla.

Originally posted by cdtm
Fairly certain there IS a correlation in real life though.

If there weren't, there would be no need for weight classes in boxing. Rick Moranis and Bob Sapp will always have a disparity in punching power, no matter how polished Moranis's technique is over Sapp's.

If a human being existed who could lift ten tons, do you really think technique would matter? At all?

😂 Human weight classes don't translate to their lifting strength, like what? That's about how much the person weighs, not how much they can pick up, lmao. that whole concept is irrelevant due to superhuman density and muscle structure being an entirely different thing.

Originally posted by Galan007
The problem with his logic is that he is adamantly opposed to the use of power-scaling, despite DB characters becoming exponentially more powerful than they were back when they were 'just' planet-busters. So he's always going to say that DB characters have no chance against heralds, because he seems to think DB characters cap at planet-busting. It is essentially just a rehash of the tired "collateral damage means everything!!!" argument, which doesn't hold up in any medium(be it comics or anime/manga.)

So for example, even though Saiyan saga Vegeta was capable of destroying the Earth, evidently that's all Namek SS1 Goku could do as well, despite being ~8,300x more powerful(yes, that is the canon difference between their powers.) Said logic also ignores the fact that when a DB character's PL increases, ALL of their physical stats also increase in accordance(ie. strength, speed, perceptions/reactions, durability, etc.)

And I have mentioned this before, but there has always been a wildly illogical difference between lifting strength and striking strength in DB for whatever reason. So even though Goku can easily punch characters through mountains(and that's on the very low end), he still struggled to lift 40 tons for some strange reason. I don't have any clue *why* Toriyama portrays DB strength like that, but he does, and it's weird: a guy who can casually punch you through mountains isn't going to struggle lifting 40 tons, but I digress.

That being said, unless a DB character is put in a bench press contest against a comic character, then striking strength is what matters more in a fight anyway. /shrug

So when I first came into this thread, I asked about power scaling. Because in comics, power scaling is often faulty - otherwise, Batman is now trans level or whatever. This is obv due to PIS, and different writers having their own spin ('writer wank'😉.

In DBZ, we have a single writer - Toriyama. It's meant to be more consistent, what with fewer writers, tighter control etc. So power scaling will be much more accurate - therefore, PIS examples should be nonexistent, right?

Edit: unless, like Cosmic has pointed out, all those 'weak' examples quoted by Enzeru are all from non-canon sources. Filler issues/episodes are still canon though, right?

Originally posted by Enzeru
-snip-

Ultimate lowball post

Originally posted by cdtm
Fairly certain there IS a correlation in real life though.

If there weren't, there would be no need for weight classes in boxing. Rick Moranis and Bob Sapp will always have a disparity in punching power, no matter how polished Moranis's technique is over Sapp's.

If a human being existed who could lift ten tons, do you really think technique would matter? At all?

Bob Sapp however hits hard not only due to his weight but because he knows how to put his full weight behind his punch at the cost of overextension. Bob Sapp doesn't "push" you when he punched you in his prime. He actually snapped into it with momentum and weight. You can actually see a few where his fist travels from behind him as he jumps into punches. A completely retarded manuever but it generates a lot of power if you land.

Weightlifting only works for power in strikes when you train for explosive power. It allows your body to move better and faster off a cold start. You won't magically punch 10 times harder from increasing your bench, but benching as fast as you can with lower weight would help your muscles work faster and more explosively. Also a lot of power comes from twisting as well. Weighted training targeting your core for explosive twisting and your serratus will do more for actual power punching than simply benching a bunch.

You could only do serratus work and know how to punch and chances are you'll hit harder than a power lifter if he's around the same mechanical leverages and weight as you. By a lot too unless he's naturally gifted.

A PR is useless in figuring out how to increase punching power. Hence why lifting strength is irrelevant. That's simplified of course, but until people start caring about the weights you did landmine twists and shit like that it doesn't matter.

Punches aren't about slowly pushing weight up.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So when I first came into this thread, I asked about power scaling. Because in comics, power scaling is often faulty - otherwise, Batman is now trans level or whatever. This is obv due to PIS, and different writers having their own spin ('writer wank'😉.

In DBZ, we have a single writer - Toriyama. It's meant to be more consistent, what with fewer writers, tighter control etc. So power scaling will be much more accurate - therefore, PIS examples should be nonexistent, right?

Edit: unless, like Cosmic has pointed out, all those 'weak' examples quoted by Enzeru are all from non-canon sources. Filler issues/episodes are still canon though, right?

The 'examples' Enzeru mentioned are worthless, yes.
-Vegeta got hurt by a >1,000 ton robot, who also happened to be extremely powerful. The robot's weight is irrelevant in that context, lol.
-Broly protected himself from lava in a non-canon movie.
-Gohan intentionally dodged the rocks that Goten was throwing in order to hone his abilities after years of inactivity. It was a training exercise.
-Goku was hurt by a rock in a non-canon anime filler scene(never happened in the canon manga.)

Magetta also punched Vegeta while he was trying to deadlift him too. A couple hundred tons slamming in an ultra dense fist super fast while you're focused on deadlifts. Imagine if in comics people got knocked out all the time by cheapshots of a lesser nature? Probably never happened.

Lifting strength absolutely correlates to striking strength in absolute terms.

It just has a weaker correlation at the human level where technique can overcome lack of it.

If you can bench 500 lbs though and have basic punching form there is no reason you cant punch with at least 500 lbs of force. Afterall that's a mediocre punching power anyway and it takes *more* than 500 lbs of force to actually move 500 lbs.

So anyone that can bench 100 tons can at least punch with 100 tons of force.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Magetta also punched Vegeta while he was trying to deadlift him too. A couple hundred tons slamming in an ultra dense fist super fast while you're focused on deadlifts. Imagine if in comics people got knocked out all the time by cheapshots of a lesser nature? Probably never happened.

Agreed.

Now, SSJ Vegeta failing to lift him, that at least proves something. But you're doing a good job arguing against that point, so you already know that.

If Darksaint wants canon examples of inconsistency, there are plenty to choose from.

For example, humans are SO much weaker then Freeza it's not even funny. Krillin can never, EVER compare to form four Freeza during the Namek saga. Let alone his "buff" form.

And Freeza is WEAK compared to a Buu Saga SSJ. Cell Saga SSJ Trunks killed Freeza without even breaking a sweat, just imagine what Goten and kid Trunks could do.

Then we get to Super:

"Hey Krillin, spar with SSJ Gohan."

And Krillin beat him.

Its just a ring out win, but the fact he could do anything at ALL against a being who should be so much faster and stronger then him that he should be a statue, and hit like an insect, is simply mind staggering.

Claiming Gohan was holding back doesn't fly either, as he went SSJ. You don't power up to hold back.

Saying Gohan was out of practice, does not negate the fact he was a fuggin Super Saiyan.

So maybe Krillin leveled up to SSJ by training? Even though humans have never, ever remotely shown that potential? 😂

So one example. I can do more.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Lifting strength absolutely correlates to striking strength in absolute terms.

Iron Fist says hello.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Iron Fist says hello.

Actually, Danny's fist does demonstratably result in increased strength, as he's crushed a gun in his hand before.

To my knowledge, he's never actually tried lifting a heavy object. But Colleen Wing did channel chi into being able to physically move a heavy book case, learning the skill after Danny violated her mind (To reverse brain washing)

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Lifting strength absolutely correlates to striking strength in absolute terms.

It just has a weaker correlation at the human level where technique can overcome lack of it.

If you can bench 500 lbs though and have basic punching form there is no reason you cant punch with at least 500 lbs of force. Afterall that's a mediocre punching power anyway and it takes *more* than 500 lbs of force to actually move 500 lbs.

So anyone that can bench 100 tons can at least punch with 100 tons of force.

"In real life" not applying superhumans to real life humans to come up with the original notion that shocked DS.

Darksaint acted shocked like this is where it all came from originally as if Enzeru was spitting unheard of truths.

At comic levels it'd be more like a hydraulic press without speed though. Luckily no one is slow in comics...

I was shocked that DBZ had the inconsistency, yes

Originally posted by cdtm
Actually, Danny's fist does demonstratably result in increased strength, as he's crushed a gun in his hand before.

That's still a pretty human level feat in comics, even if it's superhuman by real world standards.

Originally posted by cdtm
To my knowledge, he's never actually tried lifting a heavy object. But Colleen Wing did channel chi into being able to physically move a heavy book case, learning the skill after Danny violated her mind (To reverse brain washing)

Danny is one example of dozens.

You have Batmen and Captain Americas everywhere, hurting foes that should be invulnerable to their strikes.

Dragon Ball is a universe of ki-based, superhuman martial artists. Of course their striking feats are much superior to their lifting ones (not that they're lacking those, it's just not their specialty).

Originally posted by cdtm
Agreed.

Now, SSJ Vegeta failing to lift him, that at least proves something. But you're doing a good job arguing against that point, so you already know that.

If Darksaint wants canon examples of inconsistency, there are plenty to choose from.

For example, humans are SO much weaker then Freeza it's not even funny. Krillin can never, EVER compare to form four Freeza during the Namek saga. Let alone his "buff" form.

And Freeza is WEAK compared to a Buu Saga SSJ. Cell Saga SSJ Trunks killed Freeza without even breaking a sweat, just imagine what Goten and kid Trunks could do.

Then we get to Super:

"Hey Krillin, spar with SSJ Gohan."

And Krillin beat him.

Its just a ring out win, but the fact he could do anything at ALL against a being who should be so much faster and stronger then him that he should be a statue, and hit like an insect, is simply mind staggering.

Claiming Gohan was holding back doesn't fly either, as he went SSJ. You don't power up to hold back.

Saying Gohan was out of practice, does not negate the fact he was a fuggin [b]Super Saiyan.

So maybe Krillin leveled up to SSJ by training? Even though humans have never, ever remotely shown that potential? 😂

So one example. I can do more. [/B]

Krillin was fodder to 1st Form Frieza who was above Buuhan. Frieza gets 226x stronger and loses to Base Goku. Goku gets years of growth and Krillin manages to push Base Goku to SS.

Krillin grew hundreds of times from a rusty state in less than 48 hours. DB has unlimited potential.

😖hifty:

I agree with cdtm. Gohan shouldve went all out and killed Krillin.

gone*