Captain America vs. Silver Surfer (with a twist)

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well you're obviously free to make such a thread if you like but I doubt I'd be much of a participant. I don't debate enough anymore to heavily invest myself in such a topic. Especially when I'm reasonably sure that Pr already made a ruling a while back that Surfer has super speed on the forum(thought I don't think he specifically ruled about lightspeed reflexes/combat) and has already made it clear that Surfer doesn't have to be off his board for his speed and reflex feats to count. I mean what would the point of such a thread be anyway, that by way of feats guys like Bats and Cap also have insane levels of superspeed, or that Surfer himself lacks superspeed because of the feats of guys like Cap and Bat's?

Hell, you think he is lightspeed [or even faster? not really clear] -- so, as you can imagine, I'm orders of magnitude off of your opinion here since I think the likes of Cap/Bats/Spidey/Deathstroke etc. are comparable, if not outright superior to him in hand to hand.

The point is to see if your argument/opinion of Surfer being faster in hand to hand compared to street levelers holds under scrutiny -- which is the topic of this thread.

Originally posted by Philosophía
If Pr has already stated his opinion, you should feel even more confident going in.

Hell, you think he is lightspeed [or even faster? not really clear] -- so, as you can imagine, I'm orders of magnitude off of your opinion here since I think the likes of Cap/Bats/Spidey/Deathstroke etc. are comparable, if not outright superior to him in hand to hand.

The point is to see if your argument/opinion of Surfer being faster in hand to hand compared to street levelers holds under scrutiny -- which is the topic of this thread.

There have been rulings made?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There have been rulings made?

Silver Surfer can spend as much time as he wants. It’s different than speed but still a huge advantage like Wonder Man’s stamina is an advantage to himself.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure. Surfer's ruling happened quite a while back so I don't think it made it into the official ruling thread because it predates the thread's creation(Pr would likely add it if people really see the need), but Thor's is already written right there in black and white.

Nice.

So no Surfer ruling then. Ok.

These threads I swear...
😂

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
These threads I swear...
😂

You gonna take Phil's BZ thread challenge up?

Phil and I have bets on what your response would be (as we have had on most of the replies).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nice.

So no Surfer ruling then. Ok.

In your PM make sure to let him know that we'd be up for a BZ ruling too!

Tbf, I also think Surfer has some superspeed.

But Luke Cage has superstrength but isn't stalemating WWH in strength.

There are degrees to this. What I would accept is a MINIMUM combat speed level.

If I made a Flash Vs Cap America thread same stips as here, you think it would get to this?

Superman Vs Cap?

Maybe let's change characters. Gladiator Vs Cap?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You gonna take Phil's BZ thread challenge up?

Phil and I have bets on what your response would be (as we have had on most of the replies).

Edit. Wow nice to knownu have conferences bout me.

I mean, I think it's pretty obvious that Surfer has super-speed. He's just, like so many other characters, victims of PIS/CIS.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In your PM make sure to let him know that we'd be up for a BZ ruling too!

Tbf, I also think Surfer has some superspeed.

But Luke Cage has superstrength but isn't stalemating WWH in strength.

There are degrees to this. What I would accept is a MINIMUM combat speed level.

If I made a Flash Vs Cap America thread same stips as here, you think it would get to this?

Superman Vs Cap?

Maybe let's change characters. Gladiator Vs Cap?

Feel free to look it up if you doubt me, but here exactly what was said(it won't let me quote directly cause the thread is closed)...

"It was a week ago that we decided to ban folks who didn't listen to mods. Seems people have short memories, especially those that were the 3 we didn't ban (because yes, Badabing and I had a list of 6, and we chose 3 to ban as the worst offenders). If you guys want some time away, just keep it up.

1. Cut out the personal stuff. Now.

2. Stop with the lowballing.

-Doomsday has super speed as part of his powerset. Get over it. So does Superman. Get over it. So does Surfer. Get over it.
-Reflex feats count as combat speed feats. Get over it.
-Heat vision is concussive. Almost always has been.
-Ditto for Surfer's blasts.

So in case people think I couldn't possibly be talking about them, don't assume. It'll only end up with you taking some time off.

If you guys can't debate without lowballing, then you have no literal reason to post. As someone that's a fan of both characters, some of the posts in this thread have been ****ing awful, petty shit."

Now as far as there being degrees to superspeed, I wholeheartedly agree(and even specifically pointed out that Pr didn't make a specific ruling in regards to lightspeed). That's why I say that if people want to say that the likes of Bats and Cap are faster because they themselves have the feats to support them being insanely fast themselves it's one thing, but if they're saying that they're faster because Surfer is slow then that's BS.

And since Pr himself is putting in an appearance, he'll prob be willing to clarify what he meant if you're still skeptical.

taylor swift is a beautiful little ****

Originally posted by -Pr-
I mean, I think it's pretty obvious that Surfer has super-speed. He's just, like so many other characters, victims of PIS/CIS.

Yes, but the main thrust is, where does he sit?

Luke Cage has superstrength. He can lift more than elite streets. But theres no way he can hang with the heralds.

I meant....based on your statement, Cap also has superspeed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, but the main thrust is, where does he sit?

Luke Cage has superstrength. He can lift more than elite streets. But theres no way he can hang with the heralds.

I meant....based on your statement, Cap also has superspeed.

Come on. We both know that wasn't what I was implying, based on the context of the post itself.

Does Cap have a measure of super-speed? Sure. But we're not talking about streets or low metas. Well I mean, Thor was mentioned, but still.

I kid.

As far as the question of where he stands compared to other heralds? That's up to you guys to determine.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Come on. We both know that wasn't what I was implying, based on the context of the post itself.

Does Cap have a measure of super-speed? Sure. But we're not talking about streets or low metas. Well I mean, Thor was mentioned, but still.

I kid.

As far as the question of where he stands compared to other heralds? That's up to you guys to determine.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Ok. So you think Cap has a measure of superspeed [or Deathstroke, or Spiderman, or Iron Fist, or Silver Surfer, or Black Panther -- which I'm sure you agree]. But the term itself is not the point of contention here, however you define it [side note - do you also think Batman is shown with a measure of superspeed?] -- it's Surfer, without his board, in pure hand to hand speed. Do you think that Cap is faster? Do you think Spiderman is? That's the actual question. Even if you [rightfully] think that Surfer can one-shot them with the PC, or that he's durable enough to tank everything, or that he's strong enough to paste them if he connects -- the question is purely in terms of hand to hand speed. The question, in essence, is Captain America fast enough to dodge Surfer in pure hand to hand [no power cosmic blasts/attacks, no board], or is this a spite thread? What if the thread wasn't about 1 hour, but one minute? In essence -- how do you see their pure, hand to hand speed ability by comparison.

The problem is that I could say no, but we both know Marvel could easily put out a comic where Surfer would be dodged by Cap.

I had a paragraph or so typed, but I was going in circles, so I'm just gonna summarize it: A man with cap's stats shouldn't be in the same ballpark as the Surfer speed wise. But Cap is Cap, and you bet if there was a comic where they fought, Cap would dodge some punches. That and what I believe the writer intent is with Surfer, isn't terribly well-reflected in the comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The problem is that I could say no, but we both know Marvel could easily put out a comic where Surfer would be dodged by Cap.

I had a paragraph or so typed, but I was going in circles, so I'm just gonna summarize it: A man with cap's stats shouldn't be in the same ballpark as the Surfer speed wise. But Cap is Cap, and you bet if there was a comic where they fought, Cap would dodge some punches. That and what I believe the writer intent is with Surfer, isn't terribly well-reflected in the comics.

That....I mean, just jumping in here, makes no sense.

It basically seems to boil down to : Surfer is a High Herald, and so he is the same level of speed as other High Heralds.

But Cap is Cap, so comics will show him keeping up.

On the one hand you're saying we debate based on essentially handbook entries, but at the same time....we debate based on comic feats?

Or are Cap's feats PIS and should be ignored for forum fights?

One more point of clarification would be appreciated if you don't mind Pr. Would the type of mental/reflex speed Surfer used to grab Shalla Ba out of Grandmaster's explosive sphere and escape before the explosion reached her be a viable example of applicable super speed(since it involved him grabbing onto her physically), or would it be invalid since he was on his board and didn't throw a punch? Not asking you to rank the impressiveness of the feat itself or anything like that, just rule on whether such qualify as evidence of super speed.