Who is more powerful than the 616 Infinity Gauntlet?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Already did, multiple times. Alien Entity, Alpha/Omega, Entropy. Should I bring sise-neg as well?

Nope. What you've shown the forum are multiple triggers for new Big Bangs.

No one is arguing that the Phoenix Force is the trigger. So stop trying to make it look like youre actually doing something by bringing evidence for a point that’s not being argued. You’re quite scarily arguing with yourself on that one bud. Seek medical help 😆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here you go, Strange surviving big bang which was Sise-Neg's creation is again referenced.

Oh i was waiting for this one. Im surprised you didnt pull Sise-Neg outta your arse from the start.

Can you please tell the forum how going from the future to the beginning of time absorbing pre-existing ambient energy along the way and then re-emitting that energy, thereby triggering a new Big Bang stops the Phoenix Force from being said energies in continuity?

In the natural scheme of things the Phoenix Force is the formless energies of creation and its firebird is its embodiment. That is its stated role in the natural order. Stated in numerous official publications that follow Sise-Negs ancient and retconned 1974 appearance.

How is this proof that said ambient energies aren’t Phoenix as stated? He absorbed all of that pre-existing energy and then let it out thus creating a new Big Bang event.

I think where youre going wrong is you keep dwelling on points that aren’t being argued. You seem to think im saying the Phoenix triggered the Big Bang or is the creator of reality. I’m not. I’m simply saying that Phoenix IS those ambient creation energies. Why is it so hard for you to see the difference?

He wasn't that energy in the 1st place. He didnt take on the role of being the Big Bang. He simply absorbed and made use of that pre-existing power, emitting it to trigger a new Big Bang event. One that has now been written out of continuity by the Alpha/Omega retcon.

The Sis Neg incident happened in 1974. He is a long gone, ancient trigger of the Big Bang that has been retconned. Even if Marvel were to write him into continuity again, re-affirming his actions, it still wouldn’t change what the Phoenix is. It would just mean Sise Neg absorbed and made use of the power in order to remake reality in his own name.

As Galactus stated a reality is finite. The Big Bang is all energy that will ever exist. Life is born using energy, life dies, and the energy is re-absorbed into the system thus facilitating new life. That ambient energy is the Phoenix Force.

The Immortal, indestructible, mutable, PRIME universal force of life

You can splinter it, disrupt it, absorb it, use it and it'll be just fine:

self-replicates

"Inextinguishable, mutable energy"

absorbed, channelled and used as fuel and the avatar just reforms

Sise-Neg absorbed the energies of creation and unleashed them thus re-creating reality using the energies that canon states is the Phoenix. This retconned relic was a glorified Phoenix host 😆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, who said I am going to play by your rules idiot? You want to leave the forum by 2 PM, **** off.

Youve only spoken out against this deadline since its become quite apparent that you wouldn’t meet it. :yes

Nearly 2 weeks later and you have yet to produce an in continuity source saying Phoenix is no longer the energies of creation/Big Bang.

2 weeks!!

Ive seen various being triggers of the Big Bang.

Youve now shown Sise Neg absorbing the energies of creation and re-emitting them triggering another Big Bang. Those energies as per continuity were still Phoenix. It is prime life force. By its nature it used and consumed and transitions from state to state, being to being facilitating life.

You’ve shown the Alien Entity’s retconned appearance where he was stated on panel NOT to be the energies of creation, but merely to have played a role in triggering a Big Bang

You’ve showed Genis Vell blowing up the universe thus triggering a Big Bang.

You’ve shown Galans ship colliding with the Alpha/Omega object thus triggering the Big Bang in current continuity

Who’s seeing a pattern here? 😖hifty:

ZERO conclusive evidence that in current continuity the Phoenixes stated role as the Big Bang/energies of creation/PRIME universal force of life has been retconned or supplanted

You’ve proven not a thing 😄

You’re outsmarted, out-gunned and outplayed.

Stay TRIGGERED 😆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Some more hilarity. Uncanny X Men straight up tells that Phoenix is merely spark which ignites the creation.

Do you know who supported it? Why our dear GalacticStorm.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=11644202

I'll leave this here.

crylaugh

Phoenix is just another trigger like Alien Entity, Alpha/Omega as confirmed by our dear GalacticStorm himself. What is he arguing for last 18 pages?

I see someone’s been reading my past triumphs?

What you have here ladies and gentlemen is a fan 😆
What you also have here is a person of limited intelligence. One who deals with absolutes, black and whites and cannot reconcile or process anything in between. A simpleton.
In terms of role, many have been attributed to the Phoenix Force, the PRIME universal force of life, the perpetuator of the creation cycle and universal evolution amongst others.
The one that has been demonstrated on panel thus far is that it’s the energies of creation.
How so?
We have an on panel depiction of the Phoenix Force literally being the Big Bangs energies that would later regain sentience:
https://imgur.com/h5S3Up6
And we have the stars in the universe fading when Galactus attempted to disrupt the Phoenixes foothold in reality through its host:

https://imgur.com/eHEpD42

Those are the on panel demonstrations that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation that power life. Said depictions/actual demonstrations coupled with writer captions and character testimony (Roma, Watcher, Reed Richards) explicitly stating the point that it is the Big Bang and that without the Phoenix there’d be a void makes it conclusive and not debatable until such times where its written into continuity that another character has been assigned this roe . Something you have failed to demonstrate thus far despite having near 2 weeks to do so and being an active participant in this debate.

It has also been stated on panel by the Watcher and The Phoenix Force itself that it perpetuates the creation cycle, by triggering it and bringing about its end.
Watcher

https://postimg.cc/Lq2SfNH1

Phoenix Force

In the natural scheme of things this may very well be the case as:

1) whilst other entities have been given the role of being the universes end (e.g. Oblivion, Entropy and the Griever) no other entity has been given the role of being both the beginning and end so its not something that can be discounted solely on the fact that theres a overlap for part of one of its many stated responsibilities. Oblivion, Death and Entropys roles overlap for example but they achieve their goals in different ways.

2) the only triggers we have had thus far have been artificial triggers such as Galans ship colliding with the Alpha/Omega, Sise-Negs time travelling and energy absorption, Reed and the Alien Entitys time travelling. So they don’t disprove it being the trigger as per the natural order i.e the way things are supposed to be. They are artificial triggers. However without 616 ending naturally anytime soon they are the only depictions of the Big Bang event being triggered, thus it’s not a role of the Phoenixes I bother to push these days as it’s not key to me having a strong argument as ive demonstrated with you.

The Watcher has said both that the Phoenixes power is what stops reality being a void and he has assigned it the role of perpetuator of the creation cycle.

As you saw in the scans the Phoenix itself states that the power of creation are hers and that it is also the perpetuator of the creation cycle in the natural order of things.

So what did you think you were doing with this scan exactly? Awww sweetheart was this supposed to be your heavy hitter? Another “big” moment of yours?

Its just another addition to your loooong list of desperate ploys and failures.

Theres a difference between having multiple roles and responsibilities stated throughout continuity and a retcon. A scan where one of those roles is highlighted does not signify that the Phoenixes other roles and responsibilities are no longer within continuity.

You have failed to prove that a retcon exists anywhere beyond your troubled mind. 😎

I’ve won. I find no pleasure in this. ❌

Who the hell am I kidding? 😱

I am your perpetual ass stomper. That’s my role b*tch

You wake up in the morning full of hope and enthusiasm and I crush your desperate attempts day after day.
I am relentless and ruthless with it. death

You will learn kid! 😆

What I don't get is that the Phoenix talks a good game, but was tamed by Onslaught, and OG Beyonder. Later on, Marvel writers placed her on a team with other powerful beings as a member of Avengers One Million, and they struggled against a single ancient Celestial, while Knull slaughtered Celestials. I'm not saying the the Phoenix isn't powerful. I'm saying it has yet to prove that it's as powerful as the Infinity Gauntlet. Onslaught certainly isn't.

Am starting to think GS fears me in the Starro thread sneer

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm saying it has yet to prove that it's as powerful as the Infinity Gauntlet.

With the Phoenix Force, much like with the IG, it depends on who is using it.

Thanos w/ IG got completely punked by Galactus in a recent book.

Originally posted by Stoic
What I don't get is that the Phoenix talks a good game, but was tamed by Onslaught, and OG Beyonder. Later on, Marvel writers placed her on a team with other powerful beings as a member of Avengers One Million, and they struggled against a single ancient Celestial, while Knull slaughtered Celestials. I'm not saying the the Phoenix isn't powerful. I'm saying it has yet to prove that it's as powerful as the Infinity Gauntlet. Onslaught certainly isn't.

That confusion comes from both misinterpretation of the events and not putting thigs into perspective.

Reading this thread would address that. Posters put a lot of effort into coming up with their arguments and sharing knowledge, so no shortcuts, read, get up to date and see if your perspective changes afterwards.

We dont post for nothing 😉

Onslaught never faced the Phoenix Force. Onslaught faced Grey who utilized an astral representation of the Phoenix.

Following the Phoenix Saga Jean Grey was not a Phoenix host again until the New X-men era a good 7 years after Onslaught.

Your other queries are dealt with directly in this thread. Dont make ours a wasted effort. Read! 😂

Starro... Is weird. I can't see the giant Starfish lasting long against cosmic fire capable of burning through just about anything, nor do I see the Conqueror lasting long. But the minds of an entire universe pitted against the Phoenix in a TP battle? In my opinion the Phoenix would have to prove it. Full out battle? I'd lean towards Phoenix Avatars alone winning without even considering a battle that pitted the true Phoenix against Starro.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
With the Phoenix Force, much like with the IG, it depends on who is using it.

Thanos w/ IG got completely punked by Galactus in a recent book.

What book was that?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
With the Phoenix Force, much like with the IG, it depends on who is using it.

Thanos w/ IG got completely punked by Galactus in a recent book.

This is what people fail to consider.

Much more so than the IG the Phoenix is a sentient entity with a role to carry and it empowers hosts to get this "Phoenix work" carried out.

Hosts vary in compatibility with the Force due to various factors ive highlighted in this thread with Jean Grey named by the Force as the one most compatible with it, the host who was her most powerful.

The best feats performed by a Phoenix host are when its carrying out the Phoenixes agenda at which point it operates beyond an IG level as demonstrated clearly by feats.

As shown by Rachel in Excalibur however, day to day average showings on a team have a Phoenix host operating anywhere from a Thor level to supercharged Galactus level on average. Whether this is a Phoenix enforced cap (as the hosts activity isn't feeding into Phoenix work), or as Rachel and Jean have mentioned on panel a host enforced cap (due to wanting to cut back output to levels they can safely wield in their surroundings without going Dark Phoenix) is inconclusive.

The Enter the Phoenix arc that starts this coming Wednesday will see the Phoenix return to choose a worthy host in order to carry out "Phoenix work". Jason Aaron has confirmed that going forward said host will be a regular staple on the Avengers team. So apart from moments where its carrying out its work, being a team staple i think showings will generally stick to that Thor to Galactus level which makes sense as a team member, This new host will be the teams deus ex machina

Originally posted by Stoic
Starro... Is weird. I can't see the giant Starfish lasting long against cosmic fire capable of burning through just about anything, nor do I see the Conqueror lasting long. But the minds of an entire universe pitted against the Phoenix in a TP battle? In my opinion the Phoenix would have to prove it. Full out battle? I'd lean towards Phoenix Avatars alone winning without even considering a battle that pitted the true Phoenix against Starro.

I honestly cant tell if youre being serious or not lol

No one was debating Starro vs the Phoenix so this is random lol

Secondly you seem to be suggesting the Force is less capable than the hosts? Clarify 😖hifty:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I honestly cant tell if youre being serious or not lol

No one was debating Starro vs the Phoenix so this is random lol

Secondly you seem to be suggesting the Force is less capable than the hosts? Clarify 😖hifty:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Am starting to think GS fears me in the Starro thread sneer

Originally posted by Stoic
What book was that?

Marvel Comics #1000 released last year.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I honestly cant tell if youre being serious or not lol

No one was debating Starro vs the Phoenix so this is random lol

Secondly you seem to be suggesting the Force is less capable than the hosts? Clarify 😖hifty:

My post was to Dark Saint. I don't believe Starro in any form can beat the Phoenix Force in a full out battle.

I don't even think that Starro would beat a Phoenix Avatar in full out battle.

I don't know how well the Phoenix, or its Avatars would do against Starro in a TP battle.

Dig it?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Marvel Comics #1000 released last year.

Thanks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Am starting to think GS fears me in the Starro thread sneer

Quaking in my boots scared lol

Im a man of limited time and energy. Not the young 20yr old who joined the forums so i can only be bothered to invest in threads i have proper interest in. Others i might dip in and out as a one time thing.

But if you want me to go in there and give you props i will no problem 😉

YES

Nobody is young anymore on this forum.

Isn't DS like 35? lol

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nobody is young anymore on this forum.

Isn't DS like 35? lol

I cant believe how quickly time passes. Its crazy.