Who is more powerful than the 616 Infinity Gauntlet?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Now [B]THIS is more like it. Its taken 3 weeks but you've finally provided some evidence that flat out states your point on panel.

I was right to rubbish your previous claims that the likes of Sise Neg, Franklin Richards, Metatron and Entropy were the embodiments of the Big Bang as the evidence didn't show that. It was just your interpretation which you yourself have now found to be wrong.

I hope you can see the difference between the ambiguous evidence your case consisted of before and the evidence that you've just presented here now.

The spirit and the embodiment of the Big Bang as it currently stands in continuity is Explosion.

That cant be argued against.

There is however a sticking point. 😖hifty:

The Abstracts are conceptual entities. By that I mean they have no physicality or inherent power, they are sentient ideas that are able to draw power from that which they represent in the physical universe and have Mbodies crafted for them so they can have a physical presence in reality and make use of said power.

https://imgur.com/8ls3Lrf

As confirmed in his bio for example Eternity isnt the physical universe and its energies himself, he is a living concept that can draw on that power:

https://imgur.com/x34hobI

So the same holds true for Explosion as per the nature of a conceptual/Abstract being. He is 100% the sentient idea/concept of the Big Bang, no one can argue against that. However he isnt the physical Big Bang/energies of creation themselves. That's the differentiating factor between the Phoenix Force and Explosion.

Explosion is the living concept of the Big Bang event and its spirit and can use an Mbody to tap into that power, the Phoenix Force is physically said energies with this long established role as the prime universal life-force reaffirmed as recently as 2019, 3 years after the debut of Explosion in 2016

https://imgur.com/FKO4R4M

So nice find with regards to those Nightmask/Starbrand/Ultimates scans.
A retcon has taken place. But it doesn't quite mean what you probably thought it did. [/B]

😂

Like I said you'll never accept that Phoenix is not the big bang despite the scans to prove it.

Phoenix is nexus of psionic energy as per HOMU, not energies of big bang. How many times are you going to peddle that lie?

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

Like I said you'll never accept that Phoenix is not the big bang despite the scans to prove it.

Phoenix is nexus of psionic energy as per HOMU, not energies of big bang. How many times are you going to peddle that lie?

As per HOMU? HOMU calls it the universes PRIME force of life. Its glossary says its also the multiversal nexus of psi power.

So be objective and acknowledge both. Either youre accepting the validity of the source or youre not. You can't pick and choose based on what best fits with the narrative you wanna push. THAT would be peddling a lie.

After weeks of posting weak, misinterpreted ambiguous evidence that i routinely had to correct you on, yesterday you finally post something solid and conclusive and i demonstrated my integrity by acknowledging the validity of that post. (Something that is beyond your character to do) However i then explained how whilst it did indeed mean a retcon of some sorts, it just didnt change things in the way you hoped for. I posted evidence as to why and instead of taking the opportunity to be an objective debater, youve thrown your toys out your stroller because yet another "big moment" failed to achieve your desired results. Youre a grown ass man...do better ✅

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As per HOMU? HOMU calls it the universes PRIME force of life. Its glossary says its also the multiversal nexus of psi power.

Neither makes it energy of big bang.

So be objective and acknowledge both. Either youre accepting the validity of the source or youre not. You can't pick and choose based on what best fits with the narrative you wanna push. [B]THAT would be peddling a lie.

Where is she stated to be energy of big bang? Exact words as you said you needed and I provided.

After weeks of posting weak, misinterpreted ambiguous evidence that i routinely had to correct you on, yesterday you finally post something solid and conclusive and i demonstrated my integrity by acknowledging the validity of that post. (Something that is beyond your character to do) However i then explained how whilst it did indeed mean a retcon of some sorts, it just didnt change things in the way you hoped for. I posted evidence as to why and instead of taking the opportunity to be an objective debater, youve thrown your toys out your stroller because yet another "big moment" failed to achieve your desired results. Youre a grown ass man...do better ✅ [/B]

After weeks of dodging everything you accepted that Phoenix is not "embodiment of big bang" and now you are again dodging it by calling energy of big bang which it was never called in HOMU.

You are just the worst.

Starbrand and Nightmask #3 was released in Feb 2016

Ultimates v1 #6 was released in April 2016

These story arcs features the introduction and last appearance and reference of Explosion.

Generations: Phoenix and Jean Grey was released August 2017:

"The embodiment of both life and destruction"

"I am life incarnate"

All 2017

Now just as a reminder here is the most recent references in 2019 that stem from the History of the Marvel Universe #1

July 2019

In the main comic the Phoenix is referred to as the Prime universal force of life

it is in the glossary of said book that it is ALSO referred to as the multiversal psionic nexus:

So you cant use the HOMU selectively. Either its a valid source or its not. If youre saying its a valid source as you are, then you must accept that it gives multiple roles for the Phoenix Force and therefore confirms my point that a comic book referencing just one of its roles does NOT equate to the other roles no longer being canon. Stories will reference whatever they feel is relevant to a particular story. You know this. Be objective.

Furthermore in that last scan a key takeaway is that this HOMU that youve cited as a valid source references Classic X-men 8 and Classic X-men 43 as undisputed CANON 😄

Lets have a lil look at what they show 😖hifty:

Classic X-men #8

"All that is I am" - Not just lifeforms as you would like to try and demote the Phoenix to. ALL. The stars, the planets, all living entities.

"I was born WITH the first fire and shall remain until the last celestial spark is extinguished" - The Phoenix Force is the physical Big Bang energies gone sentient and as long as there is a remnant of that life giving energy in existence, the Phoenix shall remain.

"Nothing lives that is not touched by a part of me" - Everything stems from the Big Bang,all life, energy and matter, so all that is native to 616 is derived from the Phoenix Force - This ties into what Galactus said in Excalibur #61, how at the moment of the Big Bang all that will ever be is created, life feeds on life within the finite cycle of reality.

"The stars are my children and nothing is more cherished than those which have in turn spawned life" - The stars are some of the largest concentrations of Big Bang energy in reality. Matter from stars at the end of their lifecycle formed planets and life on those planets - This is again evidence that the term prime universal force of life isnt just a reference to living beings, it is the life of the reality itself, the energy and matter that make a reality "alive". This ties into what the Death and the Watcher said in Excalibur #25 that without the Phoenix that reality would be a lifeless void. NOT a reality without lifeforms, they said a VOID. This was then demonstrated by the stars dying when Galactus disrupted the Phoenixes foothold in reality through Rachel, thereby demonstrating the Phoenix Force as the wellspring from which stars derive their power from.

Another page from Classic X-men 8

“The sum and substance of life” – This highlights the difference between Phoenix Force and an Abstract like Explosion. Explosion is a bodiless, conceptual entity. A living idea with no physicality, no power inherent to its being. It uses an Mbody to have a physical presence within the universe and with this in place is able to draw on that which it embodies physically.

The Phoenix Force IS the Big Bang energies.

HOMU a source that you’ve used throughout this thread acknowledges the Phoenix as the prime universal force of life and as a multiversal nexus. In the very paragraph where it mentions that it is the psionic nexus it references Classic X-men as canon. Classic X-men states that the Phoenix Force is physically all that is, the power that the stars derive from and that she is the sum and substance of life.

You have conclusively LOST.

So just to confirm, Explosion is an Abstract that embodies the Big Bang concept, but as a conceptual entity has zero inherent power and is NOT by canon physically anything ❌

The Phoenix Force on the other hand IS physically the life energies that sustain reality and make it possible. So we wont call it the embodiment of the singular Big Bang event. Thats Explosion. The Phoenix Force is physically said energies.

The embodiment of the prime universal life force and that which all energy, matter and living entities derive from as stated conclusively.

Thatll be all 😱

Someone is seething right now 😖hifty: 😆

Another one bites the dust 😮‍💨

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Starbrand and Nightmask #3 was released in [b]Feb 2016

Ultimates v1 #6 was released in April 2016

These story arcs features the introduction and last appearance and reference of Explosion.

Generations: Phoenix and Jean Grey was released August 2017:

"The embodiment of both life and destruction"

"I am life incarnate"

All 2017

Now just as a reminder here is the most recent references in 2019 that stem from the History of the Marvel Universe #1

July 2019

In the main comic the Phoenix is referred to as the Prime universal force of life

it is in the glossary of said book that it is ALSO referred to as the multiversal psionic nexus:

So you cant use the HOMU selectively. Either its a valid source or its not. If youre saying its a valid source as you are, then you must accept that it gives multiple roles for the Phoenix Force and therefore confirms my point that a comic book referencing just one of its roles does NOT equate to the other roles no longer being canon. Stories will reference whatever they feel is relevant to a particular story. You know this. Be objective. [/B]

Where is that specific line?

GS, what do you have against thumbnails? 😂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Furthermore in that last scan a key takeaway is that this HOMU that youve cited as a valid source references Classic X-men 8 and Classic X-men 43 as undisputed CANON 😄

Lets have a lil look at what they show 😖hifty:

[B]Classic X-men #8

"All that is I am" - Not just lifeforms as you would like to try and demote the Phoenix to. ALL. The stars, the planets, all living entities.

"I was born WITH the first fire and shall remain until the last celestial spark is extinguished" - The Phoenix Force is the physical Big Bang energies gone sentient and as long as there is a remnant of that life giving energy in existence, the Phoenix shall remain.

"Nothing lives that is not touched by a part of me" - Everything stems from the Big Bang,all life, energy and matter, so all that is native to 616 is derived from the Phoenix Force - This ties into what Galactus said in Excalibur #61, how at the moment of the Big Bang all that will ever be is created, life feeds on life within the finite cycle of reality.

"The stars are my children and nothing is more cherished than those which have in turn spawned life" - The stars are some of the largest concentrations of Big Bang energy in reality. Matter from stars at the end of their lifecycle formed planets and life on those planets - This is again evidence that the term prime universal force of life isnt just a reference to living beings, it is the life of the reality itself, the energy and matter that make a reality "alive". This ties into what the Death and the Watcher said in Excalibur #25 that without the Phoenix that reality would be a lifeless void. NOT a reality without lifeforms, they said a VOID. This was then demonstrated by the stars dying when Galactus disrupted the Phoenixes foothold in reality through Rachel, thereby demonstrating the Phoenix Force as the wellspring from which stars derive their power from.

Another page from Classic X-men 8

“The sum and substance of life” – This highlights the difference between Phoenix Force and an Abstract like Explosion. Explosion is a bodiless, conceptual entity. A living idea with no physicality, no power inherent to its being. It uses an Mbody to have a physical presence within the universe and with this in place is able to draw on that which it embodies physically.

The Phoenix Force IS the Big Bang energies.

HOMU a source that you’ve used throughout this thread acknowledges the Phoenix as the prime universal force of life and as a multiversal nexus. In the very paragraph where it mentions that it is the psionic nexus it references Classic X-men as canon. Classic X-men states that the Phoenix Force is physically all that is, the power that the stars derive from and that she is the sum and substance of life.

You have conclusively LOST. [/B]

Second scan doesn't even mentions the big bang.

Sum and substance of life is not the energies of big bang.

This is feeble by even your standards. BTW, the latest handbook (X of Swords outright tells that Phoenix is the embodiment of Death and Rebirth, not big bang).

Let it go already.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So just to confirm, Explosion is an Abstract that embodies the Big Bang concept, but as a conceptual entity has zero inherent power and is NOT by canon physically anything ❌

That's outright fanfiction and you were pushing the same for Phoenix for all these years shows just how pathetic your arguments were.

The Phoenix Force on the other hand IS physically the life energies that sustain reality and make it possible. So we wont call it the embodiment of the singular Big Bang event. Thats Explosion. The Phoenix Force is physically said energies.

Nope. This is hilarious at this point.

The embodiment of the prime universal life force and that which all energy, matter and living entities derive from as stated conclusively.

Thatll be all 😱

Life force=/=big bang energies. Let it go already.

And if we go by Classic X men 43 and Phoenix Resurrection, Phoenix was born in the big bang and hence is the child of Explosion and grandchild of Eternity.

Originally posted by abhilegend
None of those say that Phoenix Force is specifically "energies of big bang" as you repeatedly asked from me to prove that someone else is "spirit/embodiment of big bang". "Life incarnate" or "life incarnate" means nothing in terms of energies of big bang.

Where is that specific line?

Originally posted by abhilegend
First scan says she was born with the first fire (not that she was the fire).

Second scan doesn't even mentions the big bang.

Sum and substance of life is not the energies of big bang.

This is feeble by even your standards. BTW, the latest handbook (X of Swords outright tells that Phoenix is the embodiment of Death and Rebirth, not big bang).

Let it go already.

Explosion embodies that specific moment in time. Im not disputing that. Im an objective guy and I will not deny solid evidence just because it proves me wrong or doesn’t fit in with my agenda. That’s you. 😉

However said universal life energies are what the Phoenix physically is as the prime universal force of life.

The cosmos is visualised and it is stated that the Phoenix Force is “all that is.” That’s a conclusive non ambiguous statement telling readers that the makeup of the universe is ambient Phoenix Force. “All that is” with a depiction of the cosmos. That’s conclusive. You cannot argue against that point. All you can do is accept that established point and from that point of acceptance look at what the implications are.

So where its stated to be all that is and the sum and substance of life, it puts “life” into perspective for us readers. Not all people, plants and bunny rabbits. 🙄 “All that is”, the life of the cosmos itself.
Further making it abundantly clear what is meant by “life” is where it is also stated explicitly that it is mother of the stars and that these stars give life in turn and it states this is why it cherishes them.
Stars are some of the biggest concentrations of Big Bang energy in the universe and their energy and matter produce and sustain planets and life on said planets.
So I wont even mention the Big Bang. I don’t need to when it has been clarified what “life” derives from the Phoenix. The Big Bang was an event that involved the expansion of universal life giving energies from a singularity. So references to how this entity was reborn in the Big Bang event or born with the first fire are apt descriptions for how the Phoenix Force was reintroduced to reality in the Big Bang event.

As for your scan, it says that the Phoenix is the embodiment of rebirth and destruction. It is that alongside many other things. AGAIN reference to one responsibility or role doesn’t equate to all other roles/responsibilities stated in canon no longer being canon. It would take a retcon to mean that.

A retcon did take place. The Phoenix doesn’t embody the Big Bang. Explosion does. However Phoenix is the ambient life giving energies of reality that were unleashed into the void in the Big Bang event amongst many other things 😄

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's outright fanfiction and you were pushing the same for Phoenix for all these years shows just how pathetic your arguments were.

Nonsense. Ive consistently highlighted a difference between the Phoenix Force and the Abstracts. The Phoenix has inherent physicality and actually is the substance of life not just a concept dependent on Mbodies with no inherent power of its own.

You have a habit of writing off anything you disagree with and don’t have the evidence to disprove as fanfiction.

This post still stands:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

There is however a sticking point. 😖hifty:

The Abstracts are conceptual entities. By that I mean they have no physicality or inherent power, they are sentient ideas that are able to draw power from that which they represent in the physical universe and have Mbodies crafted for them so they can have a physical presence in reality and make use of said power.

https://imgur.com/8ls3Lrf

As confirmed in his bio for example Eternity isnt the physical universe and its energies himself, he is a living concept that can draw on that power:

https://imgur.com/x34hobI

So the same holds true for Explosion as per the nature of a conceptual/Abstract being. He is 100% the sentient idea/concept of the Big Bang, no one can argue against that. However he isnt the physical Big Bang/energies of creation themselves. That's the differentiating factor between the Phoenix Force and Explosion.

Explosion is the living concept of the Big Bang event and its spirit and can use an Mbody to tap into that power, the Phoenix Force is physically said energies with this long established role as the prime universal life-force reaffirmed as recently as 2019, 3 years after the debut of Explosion in 2016

https://imgur.com/FKO4R4M

So nice find with regards to those Nightmask/Starbrand/Ultimates scans.
A retcon has taken place. But it doesn't quite mean what you probably thought it did.

Do your research and then come back to me. Until then admit you’re stumped and move along with concession in your heart 😱

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. This is hilarious at this point.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Life force=/=big bang energies. Let it go already.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And if we go by Classic X men 43 and Phoenix Resurrection, Phoenix was born in the big bang and hence is the child of Explosion and grandchild of Eternity.

What a weird way of seeing things.

Explosion isnt the creator of the Big Bang that would make him Eternitys creator and therefore his fathers father you complete imbecile 😆 😆 😆

Explosion merely embodies the start of the creation cycle, Eternity the long middle part and Gravitation and Entropy are possible ends to this cycle.

These things arent power in and of themselves, they are concepts that tap into power. This is long established canon. That you dont know the nature of such a major component of Marvel is really embarrassing 😆

Just to rub a little salt in the wound, lets have a lil look at Classic X-men #43 the other comic that HOMU (that you cited as a valid source and have used as evidence yourself) has stated is CANON

Here Death speaks to Jean Grey and states that life and death are interlinked. Life is a part of death and death is a structure within life that frames it and gives it meaning.
Death expands upon the point by stating that the universe is a bright fire between a beginning and endpoint of oblivion with Deaths structure marking the start and finish. Death calls said fire Phoenixes chaotic handiwork. Yet another clarification of the term “life”. Its not just people and plants 😆 but the universe itself is sustained by the Phoenix Force as the prime universal force of life.

Death then clarifies exactly what the Phoenix is and its differing nature to the abstracts:

She is the embodiment of life – Therefore not just the psionic nexus but also universal life manifest

“The sum and substance of all that lives” – The Phoenix Force is the substance of universal life, it has inherent physicality which the Abstracts lack”

[

The Phoenix Force is many things, the ambient life energies of reality from which stars, planets, life in general are formed from. The Big Bang event saw these energies unleashed into the void heralding the rebirth or reintroduction of the Phoenix Force into reality.

As a champion of life it perpetuates evolution, perpetuates a universal cycle of rebirth and destruction and is also a multiversal psionic nexus.

😮‍💨

Where you're getting caught up is the phrase Big Bang. The Big Bang is a reference to a specific moment in time, a one off event at the beginning of a universes life cycle. With said event, the Alpha/Omega was ruptured open and all energies involved flowed into the void and became the ambient life facilitating energies of reality reintroducing/rebirthing the Phoenix Force in the event.

That's rubbish. Explosion is the spirit of the big bang as you yourself conceded, there's no indication that big bang energies were formed as phoenix force after Nightmask and Starbrand 3 and you are one to talk about "obsessed about a phrase" lol. Rest assured, I'm still looking for where Big Bang energies are described as phoenix force and will do until you concede.

Explosion embodies that specific moment in time. Im not disputing that. Im an objective guy and I will not deny solid evidence just because it proves me wrong or doesn’t fit in with my agenda. That’s you. wink

LMAO, you conceded once again. Just this time it was too much for even your denial.

However said universal life energies are what the Phoenix physically is as the prime universal force of life.

Scans? After Nightmask and Starbrand 3 retcon only.

The cosmos is visualised and it is stated that the Phoenix Force is “all that is.” That’s a conclusive non ambiguous statement telling readers that the makeup of the universe is ambient Phoenix Force. “All that is” with a depiction of the cosmos. That’s conclusive. You cannot argue against that point. All you can do is accept that established point and from that point of acceptance look at what the implications are.

Gaea is also stated to be the true font of creation and the first thing to come out of Chaos.

Pardon me if I don't take such statements seriously.

So where its stated to be all that is and the sum and substance of life, it puts “life” into perspective for us readers. Not all people, plants and bunny rabbits. roll eyes (sarcastic) “All that is”, the life of the cosmos itself.
Further making it abundantly clear what is meant by “life” is where it is also stated explicitly that it is mother of the stars and that these stars give life in turn and it states this is why it cherishes them.
Stars are some of the biggest concentrations of Big Bang energy in the universe and their energy and matter produce and sustain planets and life on said planets.
So I wont even mention the Big Bang. I don’t need to when it has been clarified what “life” derives from the Phoenix. The Big Bang was an event that involved the expansion of universal life giving energies from a singularity. So references to how this entity was reborn in the Big Bang event or born with the first fire are apt descriptions for how the Phoenix Force was reintroduced to reality in the Big Bang event.

As for your scan, it says that the Phoenix is the embodiment of rebirth and destruction. It is that alongside many other things. AGAIN reference to one responsibility or role doesn’t equate to all other roles/responsibilities stated in canon no longer being canon. It would take a retcon to mean that.

A retcon did take place. The Phoenix doesn’t embody the Big Bang. Explosion does. However Phoenix is the ambient life giving energies of reality that were unleashed into the void in the Big Bang event amongst many other things big grin

And what is with you and equating life energy and big bang? There's not even a correlation, the big bang did not produce life.

Are you stupid or something?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nonsense. Ive consistently highlighted a difference between the Phoenix Force and the Abstracts. The Phoenix has inherent physicality and actually is the substance of life not just a concept dependent on Mbodies with no inherent power of its own.

You have a habit of writing off anything you disagree with and don’t have the evidence to disprove as fanfiction.

This post still stands:

Do your research and then come back to me. Until then admit you’re stumped and move along with concession in your heart 😱

Denial is strong in you kid 😉

You seem to be under some weird misconception that the Big Bang is some separate pot of energy. The Big Bang was just an event at the beginning of time. The energy involved became ambient life giving energy that formed stars, planets and life forms. You know, the things that are stated conclusively to derive from Phoenix. 😆

Where did Big Bang produce life, how are you jumping through so many hoops to go to that conclusion?

First prove that Phoenix is Big Bang energies post Nightmask and Starbrand 3 retcon idiot.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What a weird way of seeing things.

Explosion isnt the creator of the Big Bang that would make him Eternitys creator and therefore his fathers father you complete imbecile 😆 😆 😆

Explosion merely embodies the start of the creation cycle, Eternity the long middle part and Gravitation and Entropy are possible ends to this cycle.

These things arent power in and of themselves, they are concepts that tap into power. This is long established canon. That you dont know the nature of such a major component of Marvel is really embarrassing 😆

Just to rub a little salt in the wound, lets have a lil look at Classic X-men #43 the other comic that HOMU (that you cited as a valid source and have used as evidence yourself) has stated is CANON

Here Death speaks to Jean Grey and states that life and death are interlinked. Life is a part of death and death is a structure within life that frames it and gives it meaning.
Death expands upon the point by stating that the universe is a bright fire between a beginning and endpoint of oblivion with Deaths structure marking the start and finish. Death calls said fire Phoenixes chaotic handiwork. Yet another clarification of the term “life”. Its not just people and plants 😆 but the universe itself is sustained by the Phoenix Force as the prime universal force of life.

Death then clarifies exactly what the Phoenix is and its differing nature to the abstracts:

[B]She is the embodiment of life – Therefore not just the psionic nexus but also universal life manifest

“The sum and substance of all that lives” – The Phoenix Force is the substance of universal life, it has inherent physicality which the Abstracts lack”

[

The Phoenix Force is many things, the ambient life energies of reality from which stars, planets, life in general are formed from. The Big Bang event saw these energies unleashed into the void heralding the rebirth or reintroduction of the Phoenix Force into reality.

As a champion of life it perpetuates evolution, perpetuates a universal cycle of rebirth and destruction and is also a multiversal psionic nexus.

😮‍💨 [/B]

Retconned away long ago and again in Nightmask and Starbrand 3 where Explosion is the embodiment of big bang and Gravitation is the spirit of big crunch aka death of the universe.

https://i.postimg.cc/vGczx4Mg/RCO015.jpg

You just accepted it, you idiot. Are you suffering from dementia?

And don't worry, if this goes for another year or five years, I'll be here to beat you again and again.

You don't win in an attrition war against me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's rubbish. Explosion is the spirit of the big bang as you yourself conceded, there's no indication that big bang energies were formed as phoenix force after Nightmask and Starbrand 3 and you are one to talk about "obsessed about a phrase" lol. Rest assured, I'm still looking for where Big Bang energies are described as phoenix force and will do until you concede.

Explosion is a conceptual entity, it is an abstract. Stop debating a point if you dont understand the topic. Be humble and read instead of stubbornly flapping those gums 😆

Eternity is not the physical universe, he embodies it.

Explosion is not the physical Big Bang he embodies it as a conceptual being.

You have not given any evidence to say that another entity is the physical energies of the Big Bang. There is zero evidence of a retcon in that regard, Nightmask and Starbrand merely introduced Explosion. AN ABSTRACT.

Originally posted by abhilegend
LMAO, you conceded once again. Just this time it was too much for even your denial.

Youve conceded consistently throughout this thread, the difference is i step up and say it with chest like the man i am. You just move on to another desperate ploy and dont mention that i left you stumped 😆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Scans? After Nightmask and Starbrand 3 retcon only.

You have failed to prove that another entity is the energies of creation. What you have proved is that theres an embodiment for the Big Bang event. Hats off to you. Hes an abstract who like all the others has no inherent power and taps into ambient universal energies. He is not the substance of said energies themselves, therefore pre-existing canon still stands. Its Phoenix baby 😱

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gaea is also stated to be the true font of creation and the first thing to come out of Chaos.

Pardon me if I don't take such statements seriously.

Good try ***** but the Chaos Gaea is referring to is the Chaos at the start of Planet Earths creation NOT the universe.

Furthermore Gaeas referring to the Earth gods shes responsible for birthing when she calls herself the font of creation.

Gaea herself is a creation of the Demiurge who is just the life-force of Planet Earth 😱 Try again 😆

The universal Abstract Death and the Phoenix Force itself highlight the Phoenix as the sum and substance of all universal life. 😉

Originally posted by abhilegend
And what is with you and equating life energy and big bang? There's not even a correlation, the big bang did not produce life.

Are you stupid or something?

Are you seriously going to try and tell me and the rest of the forum that the matter and energy released in the Big Bang event didnt facilitate life? 😕 You cannot be that stupid. Tell a lie. You definitely can 😂