SNOKE IS NOT AS POWERFUL AS DARTH SIDIOUS
A) LUKE’S COMMENTARY DOESN’T MEAN WHAT YOU THINK IT DOES
Originally posted by The Anti-Sheev
Except Luke didn't say "unlike Vader". He said "unlike Palpatine". The comparison seems clear, and only requires a basic comprehension of the english language as it pertains to contextual intent. 😛
Context indeed. Let’s talk about it.
(https://i.redd.it/l3qhaijd1bi41.png)
Most people seem to focus solely on the ”Unlike Emperor Palpatine before him” clause, which they connect to the rest of the sentence to emphasize a supposed comparison by Luke between Sheev and Snoke in their respective mastery of the dark side. However, an alternative interpretation is that Luke is not comparing Snoke to Sheev specifically, but is comparing Snoke’s mastery of the dark side as akin to a Sith Lord’s, and is merely using Sheev as an example of a Sith because he was Snoke’s predecessor. The sentence - ”Unlike Emperor Palpatine before him, Snoke was not a Sith Lord, but his mastery of the dark side was equally impressive--and terrifying.” - still makes perfect grammatical sense when read in this way, as any professional linguist would attest. Furthermore, let’s turn our attention to the antecedent sentences: ”While I was training a new generation in the old ways, the New Republic was facing a far-too-familiar threat. A faction known as the First Order was taking form under the influence of Supreme Leader Snoke.” I’ve bolded and underlined the key part - the reason Luke is using Palpatine as his example of a Sith instead of, say, Vader isn’t because Snoke’s strength in the dark side necessarily matches Palpatine’s, but because Palpatine was the dark side-wielding despot in charge of the previous imperialist faction directly preceding Snoke’s rise to prominence, hence the usage of the adjective ”far-too-familiar.” In other words, Luke is saying that a new imperialist faction bent on galactic domination has risen in place of the old Empire, and while its leader isn’t a Sith like Palpatine was, his dark side abilities are still hot shit.
To elucidate further, Canon features dark side groups distinct from the Sith, and has on occasion emphasized the Sith’s formidability over other sects, Kanan’s evaluation of Vader relative to the Grand Inquisitor coming to mind immediately: ”You know we encountered an Inquisitor before, but this was nothing like that. The fear, the anger, the hate…” Luke himself would know the difference, having fought the spirit of the Grand Inquisitor and effortlessly bested the Knights of Ren. So, as this seems to be a point of confusion for some, Luke is not necessarily comparing Snoke to any individual Sith Lord, but is merely using the term to denote he is immensely powerful in a general sense, moreso than trifling dark siders like the Inquisitors or the Knights of Ren. But, to reiterate, he is not placing Snoke on Palpatine’s level specifically.
YouTube video
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpAQkrFsNBo&t=2m)
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Star-Wars-2020/Issue-6?id=175672
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Star-Wars-The-Rise-Of-Kylo-Ren/Issue-2?id=165958
B) SIDIOUS’S POWER LEVEL AFTER HIS DEATH
So far Dominis and The_Tempest have done a sterling job establishing concretely why Snoke isn’t as strong as the Emperor was in the original trilogy with their arguments pertaining to him being an unsuitable host for the Emperor’s spirit. Some have proffered a reconciliation by suggesting the Emperor experienced a spike in power between his death and Endor and the creation of Snoke, but to these people I say...
Originally posted by Galan007
Because Palpatine himself became vastly more powerful than he was during ESB/RotJ... Especially if you believe he was channeling the power of all the Sith before him during RoS.
Originally posted by Scizard
Depends when Snoke was created, Palpatine's power could've increased over the years.
Originally posted by xPrimex
But Palpatine is still top dog because he grew more powerful by ROS.
...please provide a single scrap of evidence for this that is not contingent on the equivocal Snoke = Sheev quote. Just one. The wealth of sources around TROS, from the movie itself to the ancillary material, refer to Sheev absorbing the power of Rey and Ben’s dyad as ”restoring” him, not amplifying or augmenting or any other adjective indicating growth. Most damningly, the new Star Wars Book from 2020 outright states Sheev was depowered as the Sith Eternal cultists await his return to ”full power,” making it clear his restoration wasn’t merely referring to his physical frailty but an actual reduction in Force power he had experienced sometime after Endor - this would most likely have been when he died in ROTJ and was forced to inhabit a defective vessel, as all his time after that point was spent on ”his obsessive explorations into rejuvenation.” Starwars.com also adds that ”The Emperor drains their life force to add to his own,” meaning the Force energy from the dyad was added to Palpatine’s own reserves of Force energy, not just spent on regenerating his physical body.
But what about Palpatine supposedly possessing the collective strength of all past Sith? Starwars.com answers this as well: ”Finally, Palpatine unleashes his full power on the Resistance fleet,” indicating that lightning storm was solely the product of Palpatine’s personal power rather than borrowed power from his precursors. He is only referenced as calling on the strength of all the Sith in his clash with Rey, and even then the wording suggests an active effort on his part - he has to deliberately summon their power; it does not passively dwell inside of him.
So, tying all of this together: undead Sheev prior to his rejuvenation is less powerful than he was in ROTJ; only upon draining the Force dyad does he achieve the level of strength he once possessed (whether he gained a surplus and became more powerful than before is unclear and extraneous this particular debate). Despite this, undead Sheev has been identified as more powerful than Snoke by both Kylo Ren and starwars.com; the former also deemed him stronger than Luke Skywalker in his prime, who is also hinted to be superior to Snoke.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker novelizationBut the Force itself belied any perception of frailty because a cloud of darkness and need swelled from the creature, along with power like Kylo had never before encountered. It was exhilarating.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker novelization”The Jedi apprentice still lives,” the Emperor said. Kylo was in a corridor of the Steadfast, but he was speaking with Emperor Palpatine--whose power was even more vast than Kylo had realized. Only Rey had been powerful enough to communicate over long distances like this--or maybe it was their strange connection that was powerful. Not even Snoke had been able to do it.
TL; DR: ROTJ Sheev > Undead TROS Sheev > GM Luke > Snoke
