Snoke vs. Count Dooku

Started by xPRIMEx16 pages

Yeah it seems pretty clear that’s what the quote means. His mastery of the dark side is equal to Palpatine’s.

But Palpatine is still top dog because he grew more powerful by ROS.


That’s what he said after Kylo Ren turned to the light. Kylo was a moment away from killing Rey before Leia interfered. Then Sidious says to Pryde that their plan was ruined by the princess. So it seems like he fully intended on Kylo taking over.

Seems completely inconsistent with everything else as Sheev's plan was to possess Rey not Kylo. That's where this whole argument originated from. Even if my theory is incorrect, Sidious being content and able to posses Kylo breaks the plot. Well, the script does break down upon any sort of analysis. We've gone far to deep into this mess.

Originally posted by Sheev
Except Luke didn't say "unlike Vader". He said "unlike Palpatine". The comparison seems clear, and only requires a basic comprehension of the english language as it pertains to contextual intent. 😛

Glad you agree with them, but I do not. Like I said before-

These are the facts and they need to be accepted. 😄

The Snoke = Palpatine isnt a fact though. Thats Lukes opinion. Supposedly. So theres nothing there that NEEDS to be accepted.

And FYI ambiguous statements can also exist in the English language.

Originally posted by ares834
Seems completely inconsistent with everything else as Sheev's plan was to possess Rey not Kylo. That's where this whole argument originated from. Even if my theory is incorrect, Sidious being content and able to posses Kylo breaks the plot. Well, the script does break down upon any sort of analysis. We've gone far to deep into this mess.

Yeah tbh it’s pointless arguing about this. The movie doesn’t make any sense.

There are too many problems with The Snoke = Sidious argument to be a fact

1. The quote is from Luke's perspective who is not omniscient
2. The quote is about mastery which doesn't necessarly means power.
3. The quote doesn't necessarly compares Snoke with Sidious
4. Snoke not being a suitable host as explaine by The_Tempest

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The Snoke = Palpatine isnt a fact though. Thats Lukes opinion. Supposedly. So theres nothing there that NEEDS to be accepted.

And FYI ambiguous statements can also exist in the English language.

If Luke was just comparing Snoke to some random Sith lord then the quote would have simply been- "Snoke was not a Sith lord, but his power was equally as impressive and terrifying".

But instead Luke specifically used Sidious as the measuring stick for the "Sith lord" he was comparing Snoke to. That's why he prefaced the line with- "UNLIKE EMPEROR PALPATINE BEFORE HIM".

Pretty obvious he was drawing a direct comparison between the two.

Originally posted by Darthadi
There are too many problems with The Snoke = Sidious argument to be a fact

1. The quote is from Luke's perspective who is not omniscient
2. The quote is about mastery which doesn't necessarly means power.
3. The quote doesn't necessarly compares Snoke with Sidious
4. Snoke not being a suitable host as explaine by The_Tempest

1. Luke has apparently faced them both, so his word holds merit.

2. What does "mastery of the dark side" refer to in the context of Luke's line if not power?

3. Yes it absolutely does.

4. The Tempest's theories are far from irrefutable. He gave one possible answer, but not the only possible answer.

He was comparing Snoke to Palpatine in that he held a similar position of power, being a new emperor figure to a new empire. However, unlike Palpatine, Snoke was no sith, even tho his mastery was equal to one.

What random Sith lord was Luke mentioning in the same breath as Sidious then?

If Luke was just trying to say that Snoke was on par with some random unknown Sith lord, then there was no reason for him to mention Sidious in the same sentence. At all.

Originally posted by Sheev
If Luke was just comparing Snoke to some random Sith lord then the quote would have simply been- "Snoke was not a Sith lord, but his power was equally as impressive and terrifying".

But instead Luke specifically used Sidious as the measuring stick for the "Sith lord" he was comparing Snoke to. That's why he prefaced the line with- "UNLIKE EMPEROR PALPATINE BEFORE HIM".

Pretty obvious he was drawing a direct comparison between the two.

Might be obvious, but was left slightly ambiguous for interpretation.

Originally posted by Sheev
1. Luke has apparently faced them both, so his word holds merit.

Yeah but holding merit does not equate to canon fact.

Originally posted by Dominis
He was comparing Snoke to Palpatine in that he held a similar position of power, being a new emperor figure to a new empire. However, unlike Palpatine, Snoke was no sith, even tho his mastery was equal to one.

A perfectly valid interpretation 👆

Hence the quote is at least slightly ambiguous.

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Yeah it seems pretty clear that’s what the quote means. His mastery of the dark side is equal to Palpatine’s.

But Palpatine is still top dog because he grew more powerful by ROS.

Agreed.

I also think that Luke was saying that Snoke's dark side mastery was equal to Sidious's his journal, but I also think that Sidious became more powerful after ROTJ.

That's how I choose to reconcile the transference debate personally. Snoke was equal to ROTJ Sidious, but Sidious himself had become more powerful over the years so Snoke's body couldn't be used.

Don't care who disagrees. Until we get some actual answers, that just seems easier to me. 😛

Originally posted by Sheev
4. The Tempest's theories are far from irrefutable. He gave one possible answer, but not the only possible answer.

My answer is better and more plausible than any presented so far.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
My answer is better and more plausible than any presented so far.
Originally posted by Sheev

Some people deny the roundness of the Earth and anthropogenic climate change too, so your stance here doesn't bother me too much.

Nope.

Earth is round, climate change is real, and I still don't think your conclusions represent the only definitive possibility, because canon hasn't given us indisputable facts to work with.

So afaic, all logic based possibilities are on the table right now. You think your conclusion is the best. That's cool. I disagree.

I'm sure some people also disagree with me. Thats cool too. 🙂

Originally posted by Sheev
Nope.

Earth is round, climate change is real, and I still don't think your conclusions represent the only definitive possibility, because canon hasn't given us indisputable facts to work with.

So afaic, all logic based possibilities are on the table right now. You think your conclusion is the best. That's cool. I disagree.

I'm sure some people also disagree with me. Thats cool too. 🙂

I said mine is the best explanation, which it is. The fact that other explanations exist is irrelevant when mine is the best. You're free to personally prefer alternative theories, but it doesn't change the fact... that mine is the best. stoned

If you disagree, I encourage you to demonstrate it. 👆

Originally posted by ares834
Well, the script does break down upon any sort of analysis. We've gone far to deep into this mess.
This. 100% this.

Skimming through this garbage again made me [re]-realize what a jumbled pile of shit this all is.

-How strong was Snoke?
-Why wasn't Snoke used as a vessel? And does that make him weaker than RotJ Palpatine?
-Was undead RoS Palpatine stronger than he was during RotJ?
-Why didn't Palpatine possess Kylo?
-Was there some sort of genetic element required in the transference ritual?
-Why did Palpatine only want Rey?
-Why in the f*ck does the ST even exist?

All these questions. Almost no cohesive/definitive answers in the material itself.

*Bullet meet brain* 😘

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I said mine is the best explanation, which it is. The fact that other explanations exist is irrelevant when mine is the best. You're free to personally prefer alternative theories, but it doesn't change the fact... that mine is the best. stoned

If you disagree, I encourage you to demonstrate it. 👆

Originally posted by Sheev

Originally posted by Galan007
This. 100% this.

Skimming through this garbage again made me [re]-realize what a jumbled pile of shit this all is.

-How strong was Snoke?
-Why wasn't Snoke used as a vessel? And does that make him weaker than RotJ Palpatine?
-Was undead RoS Palpatine stronger than he was during RotJ?
-Why didn't Palpatine possess Kylo?
-Was there some sort of genetic element required in the transference ritual?
-Why did Palpatine only want Rey?
-Why in the f*ck does the ST even exist?

All these questions. Almost no cohesive/definitive answers in the material itself.

*Bullet meet brain* 😘

Luke in the Mandalorian was all the sequel I needed 👆

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I said mine is the best explanation, which it is. The fact that other explanations exist is irrelevant when mine is the best. You're free to personally prefer alternative theories, but it doesn't change the fact... that mine is the best. stoned

If you disagree, I encourage you to demonstrate it. 👆


Except your explanation is based on the assumption that Snoke had the proper genetic structure for Palpatine to transfer his essence into. Perhaps that’s the entire reason that Snoke was not a viable option, he was a “failed clone” after all.