Big 7 vs X-men+Stips

I haven't really followed the thread much past my last comment, so I'm speaking broadly here.

I, generally, try and give the most rounded answer I can in threads. It's why I don't necessarily state who wins when I give my take on a match. There's exception of course, like matches where debate rules won't really impact the outcome. Shadowcat vs a typical street martial artist, for example. Any application of her power renders her opponent useless, so there's no real "yeah, but how phased will she be?" issue.

These discussions aren't an exact science overall though, and it's not limited to PIS/CIS. Standard equipment is another area that gets tricky with certain characters, for example.

And the reaction times of non-speedsters is another problem. We do accept that they(streets, for example), aren't actually humans. In all honesty, they probably dodge lasers/bullets, or even explicitly lightspeed stuff, more often than speedsters pull off their "everyone is a statue" high end stuff. It forces us into a weird space, as streets could probably react fine to typical Flash--we dismiss those as PIS though, even if they occur more often than forum Flash showings. Then again, I also understand the need not to take that stuff too literally, as suddenly every martial artist becomes hypersonic-lightspeed in short bursts.

All that to say, I don't really have an answer. CIS can get weird, and I've found myself being harsher on the characters I like because of it tbh. I know their characters more intimately, so I know when they won't go for certain things. I got caught up in that in the Monet vs Grace Choi thread.

👆 I mean ,we then stray into Carver territory, where bricks have some mysterious X factor when fighting Green Lanterns.

Or every single opponent of the Hulk forgets the majority of their powers, and simply goes h2h.

Villains always lose, streets never die (and actually perform well against heralds, consistently, even ignoring Batman), and conversely, heralds somehow.

We're basically applying tropes to fights, because that's what comics are full of - in order to tell a story.

Lanterns job against all kind of opponents, not just bricks.

Power rings can either be the ultimate weapons or the equivalent of Stormtroopers' E-11 blaster rifles.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆 I mean ,we then stray into Carver territory, where bricks have some mysterious X factor when fighting Green Lanterns.

Or every single opponent of the Hulk forgets the majority of their powers, and simply goes h2h.

Villains always lose, streets never die (and actually perform well against heralds, consistently, even ignoring Batman), and conversely, heralds somehow.

We're basically applying tropes to fights, because that's what comics are full of - in order to tell a story.

He's also very much dumb and he just runs around in circles in threads. He hears 'telepath' and thinks "are those the ones that sell you stuff on tv? *drolls on the floor*"

*clutches his pearls in tiers sounds*

That's just his character.

Same way heralds downgrade their abilities to fight streets. It's just their character,even if it nets them the loss.

Yeah, it's essentially "I'm up against a telepath, what should I do?"

And it just... doesn't come to him.

He thinks, and thinks.

In fact, he can think for years at the matches' start before his opponent even realizes it has started.

But it...simply..

Doesn't come to him. He is much dumber than us savy folks on this forum.

So he just goes 'lolz, I guess I'll lose".

Remember when Darkseid physically blocked Flash's running path?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

I mean, like you said it's probably due to Flash not being set up. He can outrun sound, light, death, speed - but a human telepath with human reactions can take him out. A gorilla with normal gorilla reactions and durability can take him out.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Remember when Darkseid physically blocked Flash's running path?

DS is just that fast lol. Flash even says he's fast:
https://i.imgur.com/oOURivN.jpg

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Probablyly that you think Wonderwoman and Aquaman are beating that X-men lineup. They aren't doing anything but immediately getting mindphucked,frozen and ragdolled. .

Taking feats into consideration frozen and mindnphucked isn't happening. Tempest once froze Arthur in a block of Ice and he smashed out of it from inside easily. Authur's TP has also matched and exceeded MMH's many times. He isn't as versatile with TP as MMH as his TP is more a blunt instrument than a surgical knife (his TP works on the autonomic part of the brain not the higher consciousness) but given he's casually fought white Martians and other hugh end TPers he certainly has the resistance.

Diana's mental resistance is less consistent however. In the 80s and 90s she was tp resistant but then she was affected by Lord and Dr Psycho in the 00s

The means you mentioned isn't how I see the X team taking round 1. Magik, Havoc and Storm are IMHO where the play is at in that round

Round 2 if Iceman can replicate a capt cold cold field to slow flash than Mags and Xavier can take down Hal while he is ocupied by a few of the others.

I dont see much issue with Bats and Jonn. Xavier TPs Bruce to fight Jonn who uses one of his prepared battle tactics vs him.

Can't Magik just vortex Clark to Limbo and contain him in a magic force field? With the others there to distract him or as bait to get around that speed shouldn't be too much trouble