How many times have you witnessed a no win scenario in comics? Being all powerful is just that and that alone, while being all knowing makes one all powerful. Knowledge after all is the very definition of power.
The OP asks which would win between the two. Omnipotence by itself, devoid of intellect, versus Omniscience by itself, devoid of power.
Looking at this from a timeliness perspectine, the struggle begins at the start of the match. We have to also look at this from a comic book perspective, less it be disqualified for being in the wrong forum. With that said, we can automatically bring up the myriad forces that play a part in keeping a functionally healthy comic book time line/dimension from spiralling out of order, or a chaotic one from becoming orderly. The Omniscient one would know how to bend the physical laws of the physical plane due to knowing how to tap into those selfsame comic book forces. Meanwhile you have the Omnipotent one with no clue as to what comes next. Can the Omniscient one possibly know how to take the Omnipotent one's power for him/her self? Well, of course, because they are all knowing.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know the principles of aerodynamics and flight.Doesn't mean I can flap my hands and soar.
Even if I knew how to build a plane from scratch, if I lack the tools and materials, I can't do jack.
Okay think comic book universe, and all of the forces that lie within. You'd have more knowledge of magic than any comic book character that was ever written. You'd know where every discovered and undiscovered item of power existed; with the addition of knowing how to immediately use them, and how to perform every scientific experiment both known and unknown. Once again, this is a comic universe that you know better than a person knows their own body. Any and every movement in that universe would be known to you. How is that not power?
Originally posted by Stoic
Okay think comic book universe, and all of the forces that lie within. You'd have more knowledge of magic than any comic book character that was ever written. You'd know where every discovered and undiscovered item of power existed; with the addition of knowing how to immediately use them, and how to perform every scientific experiment both known and unknown. Once again, this is a comic universe that you know better than a person knows their own body. Any and every movement in that universe would be known to you. How is that not power?
Is that not what we have right now?
As in, I can easily Wiki/Google/go into my comic book shop, and get a comic that tells me exactly where the Power Stone is (as an example).
Let's say I then get teleported into the DCU. I know exactly where in MARVEL the Power Stone is...that doesn't mean I can do anything about it.
Extreme example - so let's say I get teleported to Marvel NYC, with only the stuff I have in my pockets. I remember that the Power Stone is say, in Shi-Ar space, on a random planet. I know the exact coordinates on this planet.
Now what? I rock up to Tony and tell him to go get it for me? Even if I knew the magic spells to teleport myself there (or the Stone to me), the cost involved likely means I can't do it, not to mention whatever powers I invoke to get the spell done would probably phuck me over. There's a cost and a natural talent that needs to go with magic, otherwise Stark and Reed would be doing it (i.e. its not just a matter of 'knowledge'😉.
Edit: I was incorrect on that last point - O5 Beast learned magic and could use it. Still, however, there is the cost involved in using magic.
No it isn't. Read what I wrote.
But you would also know how to use magic on a scale that made Merlin look like an amoeba on glass..
How again do you lack the means to get what you need?
Cost? You already know the magic. Huh? Come again? You would already know how to use it better than anyone or thing in creation.
Tony? Lol. The shit you'd make would surpass Abstract.
I kind of ignored the cost of spells comment, because in that case, every time Dr. Strange teleports, or casts a spell, (Zatana included) we'd have to take that into account, which has for the most part rarely been an issue. You've inflated the situation. We should probably steer away from that direction.
A guy with Omniscience would first successfully hide himself and prep himself to become powerful enough or introduce the right circumstances to defeat the other guy/ take his power away. It’s all in the prep. Omnipotent being has none. This is how Doctor Who beats omnipotent beings, Thanos defeated TOAA, and how thanos lost when he had the IG.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know the principles of aerodynamics and flight.Doesn't mean I can flap my hands and soar.
Even if I knew how to build a plane from scratch, if I lack the tools and materials, I can't do jack.
With Omniscience I can hide from an omnipotent being for as long as I like and I’ll never be caught. I’ll device plans in the background to trick him. Figure out a way to take his powers away, if that’s not possible figure out a way to make myself as powerful. If there isn’t a way to do that then I’ll just hide forever. The least favorable outcome is stalemate. With Omniscience one could trick the dumb omnipotent being into stepping to a portal that takes him to the other side of a universe, on a lifeless planet with no hopes of coming back because no superspeed.
Originally posted by Stoic
I kind of ignored the cost of spells comment, because in that case, every time Dr. Strange teleports, or casts a spell, (Zatana included) we'd have to take that into account, which has for the most part rarely been an issue. You've inflated the situation. We should probably steer away from that direction.
Zatana is part Homo Magi, so she can cast spells in part due to her species.
I'm not really inflating the situation. Dr Strange had an entire book dedicated to the cost of magic he's been paying, and it has been running since 2015. The more powerful the spell/magic, the more costly it is. This is just a single example:
All magic in Marvel comes at a cost. DC too, but they have the added wrinkle in that Homo Magi heritage is sometimes needed.
And that doesn't even take into account the naming of beings:
Originally posted by Stoic
No it isn't. Read what I wrote.But you would also know how to use magic on a scale that made Merlin look like an amoeba on glass..
How again do you lack the means to get what you need?
Cost? You already know the magic. Huh? Come again? You would already know how to use it better than anyone or thing in creation.
Tony? Lol. The shit you'd make would surpass Abstract.
You know the spells and the ingredients needed for magic - but actually enacting them involves a cost. I may know how to cast the crimson bands of Cytorrak - but using them would involve a cost.
Again - knowledge =/= actually being able to do it. You'd be like a paraplegic who knows the theory and mechanics of running.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is that not what we have right now?As in, I can easily Wiki/Google/go into my comic book shop, and get a comic that tells me exactly where the Power Stone is (as an example).
Let's say I then get teleported into the DCU. I know exactly where in MARVEL the Power Stone is...that doesn't mean I can do anything about it.
Extreme example - so let's say I get teleported to Marvel NYC, with only the stuff I have in my pockets. I remember that the Power Stone is say, in Shi-Ar space, on a random planet. I know the exact coordinates on this planet.
Now what? I rock up to Tony and tell him to go get it for me? Even if I knew the magic spells to teleport myself there (or the Stone to me), the cost involved likely means I can't do it, not to mention whatever powers I invoke to get the spell done would probably phuck me over. There's a cost and a natural talent that needs to go with magic, otherwise Stark and Reed would be doing it (i.e. its not just a matter of 'knowledge'😉.
Edit: I was incorrect on that last point - O5 Beast learned magic and could use it. Still, however, there is the cost involved in using magic.
Originally posted by Diesldude
But with Omniscience you would know how to build it, obtain the resources needed to build it and then finally fly it.With Omniscience I can hide from an omnipotent being for as long as I like and I’ll never be caught. I’ll device plans in the background to trick him. Figure out a way to take his powers away, if that’s not possible figure out a way to make myself as powerful. If there isn’t a way to do that then I’ll just hide forever. The least favorable outcome is stalemate. With Omniscience one could trick the dumb omnipotent being into stepping to a portal that takes him to the other side of a universe, on a lifeless planet with no hopes of coming back because no superspeed.
I know all of that already. Let's start simple - forging a sword.
Here you go (as an example - we can always get better instructions):
https://www.instructables.com/How-To-Make-a-Sword-A-Comprehensive-Guide/
I know how to make money to buy all those tools and materials - any adult can do so with a job etc.
After a few month or so, I will have a sword that, assuming I had perfect knowledge, would be perfect.
That's great - how does that help me if I had to fight a swordfight tomorrow? Having perfect knowledge of how to make a sword etc won't help me much if I cannot physically make one in time, or was unable to get the raw materials due to shipping constraints etc etc.
Meanwhile, my omnipotent opponent transmuted thin air into a sword with a snap of his fingers.
Originally posted by Diesldude
With Omniscience even if you showed up in marvel penniless and wanted the Power stone on another planet. You have the knowledge to make yourself rich, make a teleportation device or a ship, cloaking device that would make invisible to everyone and everything. You could practically figure out a way to bring the power stone to you.
Meanwhile, my omnipotent opponent snapped his fingers and the stone appears in his pocket.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85it’s not my conversation so I’ll stay out, but you’re putting limits. Basically putting Omniscience into a vegetable. Someone that can’t use all that knowledge he has access to.
You know the spells and the ingredients needed for magic - but actually enacting them involves a cost. I may know how to cast the crimson bands of Cytorrak - but using them would involve a cost.Again - knowledge =/= actually being able to do it. You'd be like a paraplegic who knows the theory and mechanics of running.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85crap I wasn’t thinking right. 😂
Meanwhile, my omnipotent opponent snapped his fingers and the stone appears in his pocket.
Reality warping, matter manipulation, true invulnerability. Forget it. Nothing a omniscient being could do.
Undo everything leaving 1-1 no place to go or hide. Win the fight and then recreate everything minus the smart guy. Smh. I was limiting omnipotence.