Omnipotence vs. Omniscience

Originally posted by Diesldude
it’s not my conversation so I’ll stay out, but you’re putting limits. Basically putting Omniscience into a vegetable. Someone that can’t use all that knowledge he has access to.

But that's the point - my human body has limits. One can sit me down and describe in excruciating detail exactly how Superman flies - I will never be able to fly in my human body.

Now, your argument may be - it's comics, I can develop some kind of cosmic ray or spell or nanites etc that ENABLES me to fly - but again, all of that takes time and drive/willpower etc to attain.

Meanwhile, the omnipotent guy just...flies. Want to hide? My omnipotent guy snaps his fingers and creates a machine that tells me exactly where you are at any point etc etc.

I think with omniscience you’d be able to induce just as great as omnipotence.

You are inflating it. Who are you kidding? Who said anything about invoking anything major?

You went from this...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know the principles of aerodynamics and flight.

Doesn't mean I can flap my hands and soar.

Even if I knew how to build a plane from scratch, if I lack the tools and materials, I can't do jack.

To this

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zatana is part Homo Magi, so she can cast spells in part due to her species.

I'm not really inflating the situation. Dr Strange had an entire book dedicated to the cost of magic he's been paying, and it has been running since 2015. The more powerful the spell/magic, the more costly it is. This is just a single example:

All magic in Marvel comes at a cost. DC too, but they have the added wrinkle in that Homo Magi heritage is sometimes needed.

And that doesn't even take into account the naming of beings:

So yes you are inflating things.

Also if Stephen can do it, you'd be able to as well.

Originally posted by Stoic
You are inflating it. Who are you kidding? Who said anything about invoking anything major?

You went from this...

To this

So yes you are inflating things.

*sigh* you missed my point that it was JUST ONE EXAMPLE, it was the quickest one I could get.

But ok. Here you go - Wong and the Ancient One and Strange talking about how EVERY single spell comes at a cost:

EVERY spell. Major, minor, doesn't matter - it always has a price.

Here, Strange needed to lock his debts in his cellar, and even then, there was still a price to pay - ever since his beginnings.

Also, bonus scan showing he has magic in his blood. It's not just 'knowing things':

And I am not even on issue #12 yet lmao.

If you are Omnipotent, then you are Omniscience. But you can’t be Omniscience and not be Omnipotent, it’s a package deal with Omnipotent. Same in regard to Omnipresence.

I'll respond after wok.

OK.

Those are the costs we have to weigh, everytime we say "Abaracadabra".

And:

Note that this is early on in Strange's career - when he wasn't using big major spells, saving the world. Yet he was still throwing up for three days after his first few spells.

In short, just knowing spells isn't enough - there's a price one has to pay for casting said spells (my original point).

Going back to my example, just because you know where a certain item is in the Marvel Universe, and who is carrying it etc etc, doesn't really help you. Even if you knew the spell to teleport it to your pocket, you need the talent for magic, AND be prepared to pay the cost. Btw, no, just because Strange can do it, doesn't mean you can either:
https://i.imgur.com/HqOqliU.png

Even Daimon Hellstrom, as knowledgeable and as talented as he was, wasn't to be the Sorcerer Supreme - Strange is special in that regard.

And that's with magic. Technology? Sure, you COULD whip some tech up - it'll take you time though. What's stopping the other guy from just one-upping you on the fly?

None of the above have your knowledge. They cast spells. What is your point? Okay, so we go back to the cost. In that case Stephen is either casting spells at the expense of lives (or perhaps even souls), or living organisms, because when he's in battle, I have yet to see these physical costs that you mention. How does that work again? I mean does he wait until the cost catches up with him when he leasts expects it, or does he pay the moment that he screams by the Hoary Host's of Gingersnaps?

I tell you man, I cant see it on a physical level.

Like I was saying, they use magic, so you can as well. Care to imagine what you'd be able to create with basic household items? You are omniscient. This does not mean that you wiki anything. You simply wouldn't need to.

Im busy. Gotta go.

It's personal cost. He has stomach ulcers, can't eat normal food (it all turns to ash) and has to eat food that tastes of leprosy, can't sleep more than three hours a night, throws up constantly.....

I mean you'd know this had you, you know, clicked on any of the scans lmao.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*sigh* you missed my point that it was [b]JUST ONE EXAMPLE, it was the quickest one I could get.

But ok. Here you go - Wong and the Ancient One and Strange talking about how EVERY single spell comes at a cost:

EVERY spell. Major, minor, doesn't matter - it always has a price. [/B]

These "revelations" are so damn weird.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's personal cost. He has stomach ulcers, can't eat normal food (it all turns to ash) and has to eat food that tastes of leprosy, can't sleep more than three hours a night, throws up constantly.....

I'm a magician now?

Oh, no. Just an alcoholic.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
These "revelations" are so damn weird.

*checks writer*

I mean, I guess it makes sense. Otherwise, what's stopping any 'smart' character from learning magic, if a good memory is all that's needed.

Hell, what's stopping Tony from just building a robot that recites spells at high speed.....

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I'm a magician now?

Oh, no. Just an alcoholic.

Lol. Plus, Strange throws up chunks of his soul twice a day.

The Omniscience character would know he's fictional and ask the writer to erase the Omnipotent one with some plot device in exchange of lottery numbers.

Omniscient character 10/10

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*checks writer*

I mean, I guess it makes sense. Otherwise, what's stopping any 'smart' character from learning magic, if a good memory is all that's needed.

Hell, what's stopping Tony from just building a robot that recites spells at high speed.....

😂

Was gonna guess it was Bendis. Was quite close. Aaron has become Bendis-lite in last few years.

Smart characters (well, most of them) can't learn magic because they adhere too much to real life physics and such. It was established in Mark Waid's F4 run. One has to be really open-mided, think outside of the box and be always willing to explore the unnatural stuff that doesn't make one tiny bit of sense in "real world".

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. Plus, Strange throws up chunks of his soul twice a day.

Again, sounds like drinking problem.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hell, what's stopping Tony from just building a robot that recites spells at high speed.....

Doombot used magic just fine.

Hey - just saying.

👆 this is true. But then even his magic was then blocked easily, PRECISELY because Doom doesn't pay the price of magic....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's personal cost. He has stomach ulcers, can't eat normal food (it all turns to ash) and has to eat food that tastes of leprosy, can't sleep more than three hours a night, throws up constantly.....

I mean you'd know this had you, you know, clicked on any of the scans lmao.

I work long hours. Not much time. All the same, the Omniscient One would know where and how to use any and every artifact in the well known comic universes. Can they get to even one with a spell? Like a one time jaunt? Of course they can. Why not retrieve a Starbrand? That's just the beginning.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆 this is true. But then even his magic was then blocked easily, PRECISELY because Doom doesn't pay the price of magic....

You posted that scan recently, yes.

I find that weird, because...

1) Doom is a very capable sorcerer, gets more powerful with each year, one could say (got props from Strange, too),

2) he is willing to pay the price, as shown in Waid's run,

3) Taskmaster survived the Doombot magical attack only because of his custom armor. So, robots apparently can cast lethal-to-human spells, quick and easy.