Originally posted by Delta1938
Explain.
The text says that the Aegis was a shell, retrofitted with Apokoliptian science. We can easily see that it's completely different from 'normal' probes - it's way smaller, for one (the size of John Henry). It has different armour (just look at it). We even see parademons welding it, lol.
Based on all of this, Abhi argues it is still = a normal Imperiex drone. Even though it is radically different in characteristics and looks. And therefore, it no-selling the OE is a feat for a normal drone.
Now, the tank that fired on Black Lightning. How amped was it? Never said. Yet, that tank is >>>a 'normal' (whatever that would mean) nuclear tank, according to abhi - because of a throwaway line about B13 somewhere (I can't recall exactly where it was said that B13 amped the tanks and how, so if you have the scan it's helpful).
That's what I mean.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The text says that the Aegis was a shell, retrofitted with Apokoliptian science. We can easily see that it's completely different from 'normal' probes - it's way smaller, for one (the size of John Henry). It has different armour (just look at it). We even see parademons welding it, lol.Based on all of this, Abhi argues it is still = a normal Imperiex drone. Even though it is radically different in characteristics and looks. And therefore, it no-selling the OE is a feat for a normal drone.
Now, the tank that fired on Black Lightning. How amped was it? Never said. Yet, that tank is >>>a 'normal' (whatever that would mean) nuclear tank, according to abhi - because of a throwaway line about B13 somewhere (I can't recall exactly where it was said that B13 amped the tanks and how, so if you have the scan it's helpful).
That's what I mean.
Its advanced tech, using it to lowball probes is lulzworthy
Nice, so that's the Blackhawk stuff. No scans on the tanks, then? Or did Ferris AIRCRAFT also build the tanks?
And how were they amped?
And where did I lowball? This is me, not Carv or JBL, lol. I was asking about the tanks, NOT aircraft. Because my argument is that you're stretching something that is only alluded to, to bolster your argument, whilst ignoring other evidence (which is much more detailed) when it suits you.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nice, so that's the Blackhawk stuff. No scans on the tanks, then? Or did Ferris AIRCRAFT also build the tanks?And how were they amped?
And where did I lowball? This is me, not Carv or JBL, lol. I was asking about the tanks, NOT aircraft. Because my argument is that you're stretching something that is only alluded to, to bolster your argument, whilst ignoring other evidence (which is much more detailed) when it suits you.
You realize that I'm not carver and you can't trap me in a debate with mjolnir slicing destroyer against "totally normal" tank against Imperiex Probe, right?
I'm not saying that?
I am saying you are equating the Entropy Aegis to a normal probe, when there exists far more evidence within the story that its different to a probe - whilst at the same time, changing your stance when it comes to the B13 tanks.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The Aegis was also retrofitted with Apokoliptian tech, so it wasn't 'just' an Imperiex probe shell, any more than it was 'just' a nuclear tank that fired on Black Lightning.
I mean, we can clearly see that it's human sized - it has the S-shield - looks completely different - even see a parademon in the background WELDING it - so no, it is NOT the same as a normal probe.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The text says that the Aegis was a shell, retrofitted with Apokoliptian science. We can easily see that it's completely different from 'normal' probes - it's way smaller, for one (the size of John Henry). It has different armour (just look at it). We even see parademons welding it, lol.Based on all of this, Abhi argues it is still = a normal Imperiex drone. Even though it is radically different in characteristics and looks. And therefore, it no-selling the OE is a feat for a normal drone.
Now, the tank that fired on Black Lightning. How amped was it? Never said. Yet, that tank is >>>a 'normal' (whatever that would mean) nuclear tank, according to abhi - because of a throwaway line about B13 somewhere (I can't recall exactly where it was said that B13 amped the tanks and how, so if you have the scan it's helpful).
That's what I mean.
Except nothing about enhancing the durability or anything is implied. It refers to the Apokolips tech making it a weapon that will "bite the hand that fed it," that it's "anti-venom on a cosmic scale," and "it is the power of Imperiex turned against him." 3 different ways of saying the Apokolips tech is using Imperiex's own power against him, pretty specific.
None of these apply to the armor is more durable because of it. Abd I already posted Darkseid talking about the SHELL taking it.
"The Imperiex drone's shell repelled even my Omega Effect." Not, "The Imoeridx drone's shell enhanced by our technology " or some sort of variation. If the writer intended it to be because of Apokolips tech enhancement, don't you think he probably would have had Darkseid bring it up when saying it repelled even his Omega Effect?
And Abhi posted on B13 tech. The very scan says the B13 tech is from LexCorp. "LexCorp used B13 technology to modify it." The tanks were from LexCorp. Unless you're going to argue he only used B13 tech on aircraft that started from a rival but LexCorp modified but not their own tanks.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Except nothing about enhancing the durability or anything is implied. It refers to the Apokolips tech making it a weapon that will "bite the hand that fed it," that it's "anti-venom on a cosmic scale," and "it is the power of Imperiex turned against him." 3 different ways of saying the Apokolips tech is using Imperiex's own power against him, pretty specific.None of these apply to the armor is more durable because of it. Abd I already posted Darkseid talking about the SHELL taking it.
"The Imperiex drone's shell repelled even my Omega Effect." Not, "The Imoeridx drone's shell enhanced by our technology " or some sort of variation. If the writer intended it to be because of Apokolips tech enhancement, don't you think he probably would have had Darkseid bring it up when saying it repelled even his Omega Effect?
And Abhi posted on B13 tech. The very scan says the B13 tech is from LexCorp. "LexCorp used B13 technology to modify it." The tanks were from LexCorp. Unless you're going to argue he only used B13 tech on aircraft that started from a rival but LexCorp modified but not their own tanks.
All agreed.
Nothing was said that the nuclear tanks were amped in their destructive output.
THAT is what I was saying. You want to argue that nothing was explicitly said about Apokoliptian tech amping the shell? That's OK - but even less was said about the aircraft (let alone the tanks).
So in the interest of fairness, why are we attributing amped characteristics to these tanks which were never explained, yet with the Aegis, we handwave it all away and say they're the same (when they clearly don't look the same)?
You want to use Mordru, or Daxamites, or whatever else, sure, go ahead. My bugbear is that Abhi is equating the two, yet with the tanks we have to use info gleaned from a throwaway comment about a completely different piece of tech.
I am NOT arguing that the Aegis didn't have Imperiex tech in it, or that the base wasn't a probe.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All agreed.Nothing was said that the nuclear tanks were amped in their destructive output.
THAT is what I was saying. You want to argue that nothing was explicitly said about Apokoliptian tech amping the shell? That's OK - but even less was said about the aircraft (let alone the tanks).
So in the interest of fairness, why are we attributing amped characteristics to these tanks which were never explained, yet with the Aegis, we handwave it all away and say they're the same (when they clearly don't look the same)?
You want to use Mordru, or Daxamites, or whatever else, sure, go ahead. My bugbear is that Abhi is equating the two, yet with the tanks we have to use info gleaned from a throwaway comment about a completely different piece of tech.
I am NOT arguing that the Aegis didn't have Imperiex tech in it, or that the base wasn't a probe.
Well, the SUPERMAN: OWAW SECRET FILES says they're "lightyears ahead of any conventional armored tank." Bottom left.
I want to say around the same time Superman had to be in other places doing combat, we just saw tanks more like the real world. And.....I don't know if there's any tanks that have been nuclear powered before. There was a car design, but I don't remember if that got past design or they actually made a prototype (in fact if you played FALLOUT 3, that's what the cars you can't drive but make explode are based off).
But haven't heard of tanks. But what do you mean by amped here? Compared to conventional tanks? Well if that's the standard then....yeah, they would be. Could you quote where your argument against them being "amped" began? Otherwise I can't really go much further than they're definitely beyond conventional tanks on responding.
And I thought it was about Black Lightning being amped from the tank's nuclear reactor being detonated or whatever the phrase was. Maybe Abhi argued something else, maybe you misunderstood, I'll need to see.
On you bringing up equating the Entropy Aegis to exactly the same as an Imperiex Probe being wrong, if Abhi were arguing Steel damaging the Warworld tendrils(after Warworld absorbed Imperiex's energy) when Superman+Wonder Woman/Captain Marvel/Captain Atom weren't accomplishing anything against them, I'd agree with you. The Aegis was specifically made to be a weapon against Imperiex, and that's why Steel could damage the tendrils when Superman couldn't.
But tanking the Omega Effect? Darkseid's words support that was because the Probes are just that durable.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Those are Lex's 'flying tanks'. You can clearly see in your scan that there is no tread on them and that they hover.Contrast that with the tank Lane is in. Treaded, and completely different to the one seen in your scan.
So they are.
But this fails to address the majority of my post, including the tank being nuclear.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm not saying that?I am saying you are equating the Entropy Aegis to a normal probe, when there exists far more evidence within the story that its different to a probe - whilst at the same time, changing your stance when it comes to the B13 tanks.
I mean, we can clearly see that it's human sized - it has the S-shield - looks completely different - even see a parademon in the background WELDING it - so no, it is NOT the same as a normal probe.
Even if we discount Entropy Aegis, the probes have a really high average, better than Destroyer at least.
Originally posted by Delta1938
So they are.But this fails to address the majority of my post, including the tank being nuclear.
Because I had already alluded to the same points you made - see my post about 'normal' nuclear tanks (because obv we don't have RL nuke tanks, lol). But 'amped' relative to comic book tanks, I guess would be the point.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What's your point? It was painted and it became different?Even if we discount Entropy Aegis, the probes have a really high average, better than Destroyer at least.
It wasn't just a paint job, as my post (which you glossed over) said. Lulzworthy.
It was much smaller, has a different helmet, neck, hell, it even has abs, lol. It is completely different. And again, you can see a parademon welding it in the background of the scan I posted. Unless you can't see it?
And like I said, no issue with using other showings - my point since page 1, since you first brought it up, is that the Aegis =/= a normal standard Imperiex probe. Yet you are attempting to die on this hill, when in the same breath arguing that the B13 tech amped the tank. I agree with the latter point (the tank was amped), but I also say DS amped the probe to make the Aegis.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because I had already alluded to the same points you made - see my post about 'normal' nuclear tanks (because obv we don't have RL nuke tanks, lol). But 'amped' relative to comic book tanks, I guess would be the point.
Comic mentioned them being "Luthor's armaments" unless it meant something else(like White House security system as a possibility) I'd guess B13 enhanced/modified/augmented/whatever tanks.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Hmmm, Im not sure about arguing Entropy Aegis was diffrent from normal probes based on its appearance design. Because in comics appearance design doesnt necessarily reflect to power levels (Anti-Monitor for example)But Entropy Aegis was indeed beyond normal probes based on its feats imo
Well ,again: my argument is that Abhi is accepting that the nuclear tank was amped, based on flimsier evidence than what is being presented for the Aegis.
I mean, what evidence did he present that the tank was amped? He posted a scan of Ferris Aircraft talking about their planes. That's it.
Again: I agree that the tanks were amped. BUT, based on a similar logic, I also say that the Aegis was an amped probe shell.
