How strong is Hercules really by comparison.........

Originally posted by Stoic
Or, Cain was unable to avoid being nearly KO'd, because Thor's first attack was great enough to stun him.

Wrong.

As we clearly see Cain shrugging off the first attack, retaliating and forcing Thor to take evasive action.

Strength and durability are two different stats in comics, even if Thor knocked Cain the f*ck out (he didn't), it wouldn't prove he was actually stronger than him.

If they had actually grappled, it would have been a different story.

So, you proved nothing here.

When he's right, he's right.

I posted the scans, Cain bull rushes Thor after the first hit.

Spider-Man did this to Rhino:

Does that make Spidey stronger than Rhino?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wrong.

As we clearly see Cain shrugging off the first attack, retaliating and forcing Thor to take evasive action.

Strength and durability are two different stats in comics, even if Thor knocked Cain the f*ck out (he didn't), it wouldn't prove he was actually stronger than him.

If they had actually grappled, it would have been a different story.

So, you proved nothing here.

As opposed to Juggy who actually locked hands with WWH, too.....

Juggy locked hands and was actually aided by the enchantment that boosts his toughness well beyond his own strength level.

Originally posted by cdtm
When he's right, he's right.

I posted the scans, Cain bull rushes Thor after the first hit.

Spider-Man did this to Rhino:

Does that make Spidey stronger than Rhino?

Ahhh, I see that you left out the scans of him hitting Thor while was on the ground. Convenient.

Here it is again.

Originally posted by cdtm
Stilt's right, Thor beat on Juggernaut a little but failed to KO him.

The way I see it, this is a feat for [b]Juggernaut. He just loses his enchantment, yet fights on and holds his own. Odds are that last punch wouldn't have KO'd him even without the force field. [/B]

Originally posted by Stoic
Juggy locked hands and was actually aided by the enchantment that boosts his toughness well beyond his own strength level.

Ahhh, I see that you left out the scans of him hitting Thor while was on the ground. Convenient.

But toughness is separate from strength in comics. Notably in characters like Brit, for example.

So whilst Juggy was being blessed by Cytorrak in the WWH example, his durability doesn't aid in say, pushing against the force that WWH is outputting.

Put it like this. If I put metal strips on top of my knuckles..... that increases my durability, yes?

Doesn't help when I try to push against a car. Putting body armour on won't help me. That car is still going to push me around.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wrong.

As we clearly see Cain shrugging off the first attack, retaliating and forcing Thor to take evasive action.

Strength and durability are two different stats in comics, even if Thor knocked Cain the f*ck out (he didn't), it wouldn't prove he was actually stronger than him.

If they had actually grappled, it would have been a different story.

So, you proved nothing here.

Lifting feats? What is his greatest lifting feat? I asked you this already, and you told me that Thor was an acrobatic Kung Fu master like Batman, while refusing to acknowledge Thor's strength. What about when Thor fought the Hulk? You refused to answer that as well. Warpath vs Cain? Colossus vs Cain? Both are well below Thor's strength level. But yeah Thor is now an acrobatic Kung Fu master.

Juggy doesn't have lifting feats, there I have said it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But toughness is separate from strength in comics. Notably in characters like Brit, for example.

So whilst Juggy was being blessed by Cytorrak in the WWH example, his durability doesn't aid in say, pushing against the force that WWH is outputting.

Put it like this. If I put metal strips on top of my knuckles..... that increases my durability, yes?

Doesn't help when I try to push against a car. Putting body armour on won't help me. That car is still going to push me around.

I never said that Cain wasn't strong, just that without the added toughness we actually saw that he wasn't as strong as he appeared to be. If you made a copy of him, took away the toughness enchantment from one of them, the one with the enchantment would crush the one without it. Or do you want to ignore that fact as well?

Originally posted by Stoic
Ahhh, I see that you left out the scans of him hitting Thor while was on the ground. Convenient.

Thor was on the ground, because he got floored from a single punch.

Originally posted by Stoic
Juggy locked hands

They didn't lock hands with each other.

Originally posted by Stoic
I never said that Cain wasn't strong, just that without the added toughness we actually saw that he wasn't as strong as he appeared to be. If you made a copy of him, took away the toughness enchantment from one of them, the one with the enchantment would crush the one without it. Or do you want to ignore that fact as well?

But that is not quite the same argument.

To use your argument, if you put these two clones into an armwrestle against each other, they would tie.

If you gave them both items to lift, they would tie.

Even Thor acknowledges Juggy is easily his equal - note his words, he does not argue against Cain's words, but says his failure is due to his lack of worthiness (as opposed to saying 'you are not my equal'😉.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thor was on the ground, because he got floored from a single punch.

They didn't lock hands with each other.

Originally posted by cdtm
Spider-Man did this to Rhino:

Does that make Spidey stronger than Rhino?

No.

But Spider-Man being stronger than Rhino is an argument I can see someone making with some convincing.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
How does that prove anything?

Wolverine and Captain America have thrown plenty of Class 100 bricks.

It doesn't make them even 5-10% as strong as those characters.

One handed, like Stoic said? 😛

https://imgur.com/a/oI4kz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We're talking about WWH/Juggy.

Ah, yes.

Thought he was responding to me or cdtm, for some reason. But no, that part is right below your post.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
One handed, like Stoic said? 😛

https://imgur.com/a/oI4kz

Merely used Grundy's own momentum against him here - but it sure was a great feat nonetheless.

Streets do have their fair share of insane one-handed feats, though.

Originally posted by Klaw
No.

But Spider-Man being stronger than Rhino is an argument I can see someone making with some convincing.

Same with Juggs/Thor, but the story made it clear Cain is at least Thor's equal in strength, so it's kinda ridiculous to argue he's not using the evidence from the same book...

I have to work. I'm hoping that you can understand why I've taken the stance that I have. Cain's strength level is below the strongest because of the reasons that I've already stated. Temple, Warpath, Colossus, Ultraverse showings, Toughness enchantment. Thor has never been portrayed as an acrobatic Kung Fu master in the same light as Batman has. The Hulk is actually larger than Cain based on weight and height. We've seen the Hulk battle Thor, and his size wasn't an issue.

Well, as you can see, you have failed to convince anyone here and that was a terrible example/strategy to use.

You were just too stubborn to admit that.

Originally posted by Stoic
No upper strength limit. Thor overpowered him when he lost the unstoppable enchantment. But yeah, let's willfully ignore that the opinions of the editorial team hold very little weight here.

Originally posted by Smurph
Same reason why Daredevil is stronger than Rhino

Good scans, good example.

See, I'm giving someone credit for making a good contribution. *Skoofs at snobs*

Ben Reilly knew Kaine was significantly stronger than him, yet he believed a quick series of attacks would be effective in beating him.

And so on, and so on. We could list such examples for a whole week and we still wouldn't be done.