Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Well, as you can see, you have failed to convince anyone here and that was a terrible example/strategy to use.You were just too stubborn to admit that.
It took him years to dig himself out from that ancient temple. Blue Marvel, the one that you claimed was the weakest, effortlessly stopped a state sized meteor. Effortlessly picked up a pyramid. You have yet to give one example of Cain's lifting feats, his harrowing battle with a teen Colossus, and his fight against Warpath who you claimed was weaker than Sabretooth. Yeah, and I'm stubborn.
Originally posted by StoicCherry pick low feats for one and high feats for another is really trolling.
It took him years to dig himself out from that ancient temple. Blue Marvel, the one that you claimed was the weakest, effortlessly stopped a state sized meteor. Effortlessly picked up a pyramid. You have yet to give one example of Cain's lifting feats, his harrowing battle with a teen Colossus, and his fight against Warpath who you claimed was weaker than Sabretooth. Yeah, and I'm stubborn.
Thanos has no lifting feats but we know he is significantly stronger than Thor and Hercules.
But I do agree that BM is stronger than Cain.
The idea that you can base strength levels on who beat who in a fight is ridiculous. The world's best Strongmen and Powerlifters would get annihilated in a fight by a skilled boxer or MMA fighter. That doesn't mean the fighters are physically stronger than the lifters. Fighting is multifaceted. You need speed, skill and stamina in addition to strength. Also, punching power isn't just about strength. Mike Tyson is one of the hardest hitting boxers in history and Holyfield overpowered him in the clinches. Diontay Wilder is the hardest hitting boxer right now and he was absolutely dominated and literally brought to his knees in the clinches by the bigger and stronger Tyson Fury.
Originally posted by Psychotron
The idea that you can base strength levels on who beat who in a fight is ridiculous. The world's best Strongmen and Powerlifters would get annihilated in a fight by a skilled boxer or MMA fighter. That doesn't mean the fighters are physically stronger than the lifters. Fighting is multifaceted. You need speed, skill and stamina in addition to strength. Also, punching power isn't just about strength. Mike Tyson is one of the hardest hitting boxers in history and Holyfield overpowered him in the clinches. Diontay Wilder is the hardest hitting boxer right now and he was absolutely dominated and literally brought to his knees in the clinches by the bigger and stronger Tyson Fury.
With comics, though, it's a bit different.
Batman has way more lifting feats than, say, Doomsday. All DD has, are fighting feats.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
With comics, though, it's a bit different.Batman has way more lifting feats than, say, Doomsday. All DD has, are fighting feats.
Maybe, but while Cain doesn't have lifting feats, he does have the feat of locking up with and overpowering Hulk at least twice. War Hulk an WWH respectively. That's a feat of brute strength. And yes, he has his unstoppability enchantment, but he needed to first overcome Hulk's strength to build forward momentum.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Maybe, but while Cain doesn't have lifting feats, he does have the feat of locking up with and overpowering Hulk at least twice. War Hulk an WWH respectively. That's a feat of brute strength. And yes, he has his unstoppability enchantment, but he needed to first overcome Hulk's strength to build forward momentum.
By that standard, Doomsday locked up with Superman and Martian Manhunter, clearly overpowering the latter.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Okay? Doomsday being > standard versions of Superman and MM is pretty universally agreed upon, is it not?
Was replying to the DD only having fighting feats comment, and your apparent agreement by omission while citing Cain's lockup feat.
So pointed out DD has similar feats.
Originally posted by Smurph
So are they rivals in strength or does Thor overpower Juggernaut
Thor was able to take Cain's hit and rise. Cain could not do the same.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Maybe, but while Cain doesn't have lifting feats, he does have the feat of locking up with and overpowering Hulk at least twice. War Hulk an WWH respectively. That's a feat of brute strength. And yes, he has his unstoppability enchantment, but he needed to first overcome Hulk's strength to build forward momentum.
That wasn't pure strength, it was aided as alway by his enchantment. There is a difference. The entire time that the Hulk appeared during the WW Hulk arc was him drastically holding back. Cain never overpowered him. There are at least a couple of times that we clearly see Cain's upper limit. I've mentioned them.
Originally posted by h1a8
Cherry pick low feats for one and high feats for another is really trolling.Thanos has no lifting feats but we know he is significantly stronger than Thor and Hercules.
But I do agree that BM is stronger than Cain.
Cherry picking? I cited Cain's limitations that were put on panel to give the reader a clear idea of his strength level. This does not make him a weakling. However, it does place him among the weakest of the characters within this thread topic.
Originally posted by 8swords
first time seeing this, but how tf did DD do that? he was in the air while rhino was charging? he should've beed ragdolled by the centrifugal force of him holding rhino that way.
The problem with that view is that the Rhino is over one hundred times stronger that Matt, while Cain isn't in comparison to Thor. Nor is Thor the acrobatic Kung Fu master that is Daredevil, Batman, or Black Panther is.
Originally posted by Stoic
The problem with that view is that the Rhino is over one hundred times stronger that Matt, while Cain isn't in comparison to Thor. Nor is Thor the acrobatic Kung Fu master that is Daredevil, Batman, or Black Panther is.
The view is that weaker characters can punch out stronger characters all the time in comics.
Colossus has done it to Hulk, for example. Colossus, who isn't an acrobatic Kung Fu master
Originally posted by Stoic
That wasn't pure strength, it was aided as alway by his enchantment. There is a difference. The entire time that the Hulk appeared during the WW Hulk arc was him drastically holding back. Cain never overpowered him. There are at least a couple of times that we clearly see Cain's upper limit. I've mentioned them.
.
No, it wasn't aided by his enchantment. When you lock up with someone you have to first overpower them to get any kind of forward momentum going. Juggernaut's enchantment requires forward momentum to work. We can see that Juggernaut was beggining to push Hulk back because of the trail of Hulk's feet on the ground. Juggernaut also says they've done this before and he won, which Hulk doesn't deny. And yes, WWH isn't Green Scar at his absolute strongest, but he's still at least as strong as Thor.
Plus, drastically holding back or no, he was still angrier than he had ever been. So any preior Hulk incarnations, he was stronger. They literally spelled it out:
Holding back his punches, doesn't mean he's holding back his speed or durability, and if he could, he would use his strength to end fights quickly.
As seen with She-Hulk:
https://i.imgur.com/RBT1hlo.jpg
Colossus:
https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/hulk16.jpg
Talbot:
https://i.imgur.com/9yWXzg4.jpeg
And Cain, lol:
https://i.imgur.com/k0bTjPT.jpg
He wasn't holding back, when trying to end fights quickly.
Yet, when Cain was powered back up by Cytorrak - WWH was unable to put hum down.
His 'holding back', was to protect the little people.
Doesn't mean we simply extrapolate linearly and say, oh, every time Logan slashed him, it was him holding back, or when Strong Guy was dancing around him, he was holding back etc etc....
Originally posted by StoicThat doesn’t answer the question. You keep saying Thor and Juggernaut are rivals in strength but also that Thor clearly overpowers Juggernaut. I’m asking which one it is: rivals or not?
Thor was able to take Cain's hit and rise. Cain could not do the same.
Your answer is about durability and lasting power, not strength. The Thing has made a career out of taking punches and getting back up. Those aren’t strength feats.
Originally posted by 8swordslol yeah in a realistic scenario Rhino should have, I dunno, torn Matt’s arms off. It’s also unclear why Rhino is so shook by… falling backwards? 😂
first time seeing this, but how tf did DD do that? he was in the air while rhino was charging? he should've beed ragdolled by the centrifugal force of him holding rhino that way.
The point is just that in comic books, weaker characters can outfight bigger, stronger, charging opponents. Thor out-punching Juggernaut doesn’t prove Thor is stronger than Juggernaut.
Originally posted by Smurph
That doesn’t answer the question. You keep saying Thor and Juggernaut are rivals in strength but also that Thor clearly overpowers Juggernaut. I’m asking which one it is: rivals or not?Your answer is about durability and lasting power, not strength. The Thing has made a career out of taking punches and getting back up. Those aren’t strength feats.
👆
lol yeah in a realistic scenario Rhino should have, I dunno, torn Matt’s arms off. It’s also unclear why Rhino is so shook by… falling backwards? laughing out loud
Don't forget about him choking on Crossbone's knife hilt and being 100% helpless about it. Without, you know, the blade part, as it got shattered prior to that.
